Alaska Arbitration

[LivingToFly]

I am trying to understand this industry and pilot labor....

The pilots are the highly trained, educated, and hard working professionals who safely fly millions of perfect (in terms of safety) hours per year....the record speaks for itself. Additionally, pilots spend their entire career with the same airline whenever possible.

Management makes countless mistakes, each one costing millions if not billions of dollars. Furthermore, many don't even spend their entire career with one airline, or even one industry, they come and go with the wind. If our performance as pilots matched the performance of airline management, how safe would flying be?

And who is taking the pay cuts??? That's what pilots get for 2 of the safest years in the history of commercial air travel? Aren't we doing our part? Am I missing something?

 

[mach none]

I am in shock. I would not fly on Alaska for a while...atleast if you need to be someplace by a specific time. This place will melt down in the coming months. Pilots, rampers, MX and Chaos.

We will become a stepping stone to Southwest and Jetblue now. I am now making less than I was on the B scale. Atleast I get my pension for a few more years. YIPEE!

Captains take anywhere from a 22% to a 29% cut. FOs are lucky, we get anywhere from a 30% to a 34% cut. This puts our senior captains with approx. $35/hr of a Horizon RJ Captain flying 70 seats.

Bankrupcy rates for a company that is profitable after all the special write downs are eliminated. If I could, I would...

 

[TheTIC]

What a sad, sad, sad, day. Although I'm an outsider, I have been waiting for the hiring boom at Alaska. I figured that the pay cut would put top capts about the $165/hr range. Maybe give up some trip touching vacation rules or something.

The Alaska pilots I know are very proud of their airline (or were up to last night). I think management just F---ed up. If they try to grow, they will have people leaving to go with UPS, FED EX, Southwest and even Jet Blue, (or whoever else is hiring). Maybe even some of the new guys who have been yanked around in the pool for awhile might leave.

Alaska has great flying and great pilots. Most will probably stay because of the way this industry makes you start at the bottom. At least the new guys have an option. My prayers for anyone who has to stay at Alaska because they are too senior for it to be worth working up another senority list. Getting close to $50,000 cut in pay is not easy to bugdet for.

Good luck Alaska pilots... I feel bad for this lousy situation.

I hope your anti-strike clause is gone. (forced minipulation/arbitration, whatever it is called)

 

[AK737FO]

Sleepless in ANC

Last night was not very productive in the sleep department. Here I am on an overcast rain filled morning thinking about calling in fatigued due to my lack of sleep.
I took a 28.8% pay cut this morning. Will the landing I do on the Arctic today be only 71.2% of the one I did yesterday? Will Mr. Ayer get 100% of my abilities today , or 71.2% ? Will I be able to make it financially in the months and years to come, or do I sell the house? Do I send my wife back into the workforce?

I fear for this company. Our future is dark and there is indeed a storm on the horizon. I will be a professional. I will fly the Arctic today and my passengers will never know that their inexpensive and safe flight was paid for in blood.

 

[80drvr]

Last night was not very productive in the sleep department. Here I am on an overcast rain filled morning thinking about calling in fatigued due to my lack of sleep.
I took a 28.8% pay cut this morning. Will the landing I do on the Arctic today be only 71.2% of the one I did yesterday? Will Mr. Ayer get 100% of my abilities today , or 71.2% ? Will I be able to make it financially in the months and years to come, or do I sell the house? Do I send my wife back into the workforce?

I fear for this company. Our future is dark and there is indeed a storm on the horizon. I will be a professional. I will fly the Arctic today and my passengers will never know that their inexpensive and safe flight was paid for in blood.

Welcome to the not so exclusive concession club. I can tell you that I went through the same emotions after our deal at AA. I was so pissed that I dumped nearly my whole flying schedule for a month afteward.

Hopefully your deal won't be accompanied by the same level of contraction, displacements and furloughs (2890) that we experienced. That has proved to be more disruptive to most on the list than the pay cuts in and of themselves.

 

[ferlo]

call in sick, you are not safe to fly. I did. And I will continue to do so.

 

[ratherfish]

Whip it out

Can someone post the actual new skimmed pay scale please?

 

[Paul R. Smith]

Unbelievable.


These arbi-traitors are on the government payroll. Well one of XJT's LOAs is going to binding arbitration...I can't wait to see what the company is going to get for an item we achieved on our brand friggin new contract!!!

 

[Eagle-ista]

It just might be time for a pilot group to shut down an airline. The death spiral this industry is in has to end.

While it's true that an airline can't charge Greyhound fares and pay mainline wages, it's also true that the airlines can't support an operation with more Vice Presidents than aircraft. Pilots are taking a disproportional ammount of the responsibility for the difficulties in the current economy.

Its time to "share the lack of wealth". More CEOs need to take the path Don Carty blazed when his lack of ethics were held up the the spotlight by the APA. When the ouiji board makes the decisions anyway, why pay the executives $400/hr with a 160 hour/month guarantee.

Just my .02...

 

[catIIIc]

Well maybe AMR and AK are in talks right now to merge, the pay and retirement are about the same. Fleet commonality works as well plus a large west coast network. Oh wait they did that when they bought Reno, Air Cal etc.

 

[Freight Dog]

I'm really sorry. The first thing I thought of when I saw the new payscale was, oh no, Aloha wages. It looks exactly like what those guys recently VOLUNTARILY accepted in bankruptcy. I never thought I'd see this happen to Alaska, a profitable carrier. Keep your chins up, something good has to come out of this somewhere. Hopefully it won't be soley for your management's pockets.

Actually, the new Alaska payscale resembles Aloha's ATSB loan payscale. We took 10% more with Chapter 11 forgoing our raises this year and next year, so actually it's more like 14%.

Sad.... but after all the chest thumping of leaving to JB, SWA, UPS, FDX... no one will leave, and soon enough this will become an accepted norm.

 

[mach none]

I would recommend getting the 737 type and going to SWA. A real airline that cares about employee moral. I just wonder how long before they ask for concessions and continue the flushing of the toilet.

My guess is we buy someone before the year is over. Any bets on Frontier or Aloha.

 

[DeLUSION]

Time for a REAL pilot union across the board.

 

[flx757]

I am also in shock. I also did not sleep last night. In fact, I hopped a plane to catch up with my wife. And even though she hasn't seen me in a couple of weeks, being the great friend that she is, she just sat and let me vent.

I am totally re-evaluating my remaining productive years. It is looking more and more like they will not be at Alaska. In fact, the most likely place they will be is outside this industry altogether. I, for one, have simply had enough and am "going fishing".

This will be a 100% certainty if the UPS "good" letter shows up at the house over the next couple of weeks. Guaranteed. Have guitar and will travel, and travel, and travel. As far from Angle Lake and the Flight Ops building as possible.

Good luck to all. I know this place will NOT be the place to be in the next few years. It will only get much worse, and very ugly.

BTW...Freight Dog. Ya want my phone #? Proof of your "chest thumping" theory? The interview was the second week of April. Waiting on the letter. If it is a "yea", then we'll see who is "chest thumping".

flx757....out......

 

[CapnVegetto]

Dam shame. Yet another greedy management team that kills pilot wages while still sticking millions in their pocket. The public REALLY needs to be educated about this. Can't ALPA do something about that?

 

[tico]

Actually, the new Alaska payscale resembles Aloha's ATSB loan payscale. We took 10% more with Chapter 11 forgoing our raises this year and next year, so actually it's more like 14%.

Sad.... but after all the chest thumping of leaving to JB, SWA, UPS, FDX... no one will leave, and soon enough this will become an accepted norm.

Not to be an a-hole, but we have been profitable and on paper when we are not it is just that on paper....So it is different for us....We were not facing liquidation, as you guys or the rest of the crowd. So bear with us just a bit

 

[SirFlyALot]

Since it sounds like 26% is simply an average of the pay cuts, does anyone have access to the official new payscale?

 

[Singlecoil]

New Alaska rates:

CA FO
1 130.42 35.16
2 131.31 61.67
3 132.61 72.99
4 133.91 80.15
5 135.17 85.66
6 136.53 87.89
7 138.18 89.47
8 141.12 91.07
9 144.19 93.07
10 148.34 94.69
11 150.59 95.94
12 153.79 96.83

 

[ironwedge]

Any idea what (if anything) happened to benefits? - A/B -Plan, 401K, medical benefits, etc....? Was there anything new in the contract to close the gap on pay like QOL changes?

- Thanks for any info

 

[tico]

Captain Wage Rates (5/1/05)
step current proposed % change
1 183.81 130.42 -29
2 185.06 131.42 -29
3 185.20 132.61 -28.8
4 187.44 133.91 -28.6
5 188.56 135.17 -28.3
6 189.69 136.53 -28.0
7 190.96 138.18 -27.6
8 191.98 141.12 -26.5
9 193.37 144.19 -25.4
10 194.46 148.34 -23.7
11 195.55 150.59 -23.0
12 196.80 153.79 -21.9

First Officer Wage Rates (5/1/05)
step current proposed % change
1 52.05 35.16 -32.4
2 91.29 61.67 -32.4
3 111.18 72.99 -34.3
4 117.51 80.15 -31.8
5 120.37 85.66 -28.8
6 124.96 87.89 -29.7
7 127.90 89.47 -30.0
8 130.62 91.07 -30.3
9 133.72 93.07 -30.4
10 136.49 94.69 -30.6
11 137.62 95.94 -30.3
12 138.84 96.83 -30.3

This is the matrix that we are using as of today......

 

[ironwedge]

Tico,

I remember seeing Alaska's proposal to ALPA, these numbers look like they are in line with that proposal. Do you know?

Makes one wonder what the arbitrator was thinking. It would also make one wonder why any pilot group would agree to binding arbitration in the future. Seems to be another broken process.

 

[Singlecoil]

These rates are the company's proposal exactly. Maybe he thought it was baseball style arbitration?

 

[Singlecoil]

Any idea what (if anything) happened to benefits? - A/B -Plan, 401K, medical benefits, etc....? Was there anything new in the contract to close the gap on pay like QOL changes?

- Thanks for any info

No changes to the retirement plans or 401k, we have to pay more for medical (not sure how much) and we lost trips touching training or vacation.

 

[AQ PILOT]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** guys, sorry to see this happen to you....

 

[Boeingman]

Management throughout the industry is having a field day using the "economic crisis card".

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

Do you still have binding arbitration in the new contract?

Seeing the results of this last arbitration I think the pilot group would want it to go away.

Do you have to go to binding arbitration to determine if you can do away with binding arbitration?

 

[Yank McCobb]

Ignoring the fact that you could just be trying to be "cute", which is WAY out of place on this thread by the way, if you had bothered to read the posts, you would have seen it mentioned several times that this does away with binding arbitration at Alaska and opens the door to "self help" the next time around.

Counting the weeks until retirement and a permanent goodbye to this messed up industry. This from someone who works for one of the supposed "good" companies. What's the use of being at a "good" company if the entire world is imploding all around you? It's only a matter of time until the burning bag of shat is on your OWN doorstep.

 

[Freight Dog]

BTW...Freight Dog. Ya want my phone #? Proof of your "chest thumping" theory? The interview was the second week of April. Waiting on the letter. If it is a "yea", then we'll see who is "chest thumping".

flx757....out......

God bless you FLX.. I hope you get the yea letter.

Ever since 9/11, people would just give up pay, more pay, work rules, retirement, and all for what? We'd all hear the same stories... but in the end, everything goes back to being the same with the exception of your paycheck.

The problem is that we all take it, b*tch about it, and then that's it... it becomes the new norm.

Like someone said here.. it will take a REAL union to step up to the plate, and truly fight to put an end to this needless erosion of our pay/work rules. Sorry to say it, but ALPA under Duane Woerthless is just that - WORTHLESS. Speaking of "chest thumping", did you catch his column in the last issue? I about fell out of my chair laughing. 3 years too late, Duane! Now this....

I am truly sorry to see a great airline like Alaska sink to this level.

It will take hard work, dedication, difficult decisions and strikes to recover from this slump... Let's hope that we as pilots have the cojones to go through with it.

 

[DeLUSION]

Where do we start?

What is the first step to bring PILOTS together!

Rules and Laws are made to be changed. A REAL NATIONAL pilot brotherhood! Any other way will lead us right to where we are.

 

[English]

Actually, the new Alaska payscale resembles Aloha's ATSB loan payscale. We took 10% more with Chapter 11 forgoing our raises this year and next year, so actually it's more like 14%.

Sad.... but after all the chest thumping of leaving to JB, SWA, UPS, FDX... no one will leave, and soon enough this will become an accepted norm.

I thumped louder than anyone else. My feet did the talking.