Alaska Arbitration

[Yank McCobb]

First off, I am not your pal.

Thank God for small favors.

There is only one way, and that is OUT. The rest is just pissin' into the wind. And he who pisses into the wind holds his brain in his hand.

Talk all you want, but that is all it is.

 

[BORAT]

So long TANGO! It's time to POLKA!

 

[ACAFool]

First off, I am not your pal. Second, No it is not going to make them raise the pay by $100 hr, nor did I even imply anything as ridiculous as that. But if the only thing they care about is the bottom line, it could eventually have an effect. Take a look at one of the flight schedule boards in SEA. Nearly all the flights are very late. I have personally rarely ever seen an airplane that didn't have at least one thing waiting to be written up. How long before passengers get tired of it. We have always had a bunch of wusses at this company, perhaps they have finally awakened. All I can say is FLY SAFE!!!!!

How long do you think it would take to briskly walk 1.5 miles. I am with you FLY SAFE!!!!

 

[ACAFool]

Is there any accountability with the union reps who turned down the "latest" company offer which would have hurt far less than the arbitrator's deal? Is there a plan for the next round of negotiations, or is it just a burn down the house mentality? Again, a clever plan. One of absolute futility and one that will NOT in any form or fashion yield anything but a very brief sense of revenge. Revenge don't pay the bills.

So your brilliant plan would be to make sure to hold the MEC and negotiating committee responsible. That will really pay the bills as well. It's time for a pilot group to stop acting like pu$$ies and show management they are not going to take it anymore. And perhaps the only way that can work is by affecting the bottom line.

 

[Yank McCobb]

Actually, as I understand it, their mission was to see this through to the end, to ensure the no-strike and arbitration clauses were eliminated, no matter what. I guess the current result falls under the "no matter what".

As far as any "brilliant plan" that I may have...it has only one point. I retire in less than 3 months. I could not care less about this industry any longer. You guys can save the world, if you wish.

I'm embarking on a new life. If any of you had half a clue (which is obviously not the case) you would do the same. In the mean time, have fun beating your head against the wall. Go ahead...show management you aren't going to take it anymore. That has worked SO well so often in the past. Right?

 

[juan2go]

"I'm embarking on a new life"

Yank,

If I was retiring in three months, I could also say that I'm embarking on a new life. If you were not retiring for 13 years would you still be "embarking"?

Best of luck in retirement. I sincerely mean that.

regards,

Juan

 

[alaskaplt]

I'm embarking on a new life. If any of you had half a clue (which is obviously not the case) you would do the same. In the mean time, have fun beating your head against the wall.

Easy for you to say, with only 3 months to go. Good riddance.

 

[juan2go]

Hey, at least I sounded like I was being nice to the grump.

 

[Jetsi]

My Faux Pas

I couldn't find "ALASKAN" anywhere among my list of US airline companies. Can you help me out with this one?

Sorry Yank, I was thinking about that "ALASKAN" Amber ale that is made up there. Guess I should pay more attention when I am typing.

Jetsi

 

[tico]

Well it looks like it is time to shut up and join everyone else in the industry. Sell the house, sell the new cars, get rid of the toys, pull the kids out of private school, payoff the cards and buy a good pair of comfortable, black walking shoes. Negotiations start again in 18 months and I don't see how we will ever be able to come to an agreement on a contract now. I hope for their sake, that the leadership at the other unions will be advising their members to prepare for an extended period without pay and benefits sometime in 2007......

 

[RedStork]

How many contracts have expired with no agreement over the years... almost every single one. The threat of self help is obviously the only real powerful tool the union has in its pocket. This fact has never been more self evident. I don't know who would have the will to use it when your company is on the brink of survival like so many are these days (Alaska not included). I also don't know if this contract will irreparable harm the relatively high moral and pretty good culture at Alaska, losing a third of your pay is a tough pill to swallow.

 

[akairman702]

Have any Alaska Pilot's heard any kind of official (or not official) response from the MEC? I know it's easy to Monday morning Q.B. this thing but considering it has turned out to be such a total and complete disaster I'd like to know what made our negotiators believe that the strategy they pursued had the highest likelihood of success. Were they as blindsided by this as we were, and if so how is that possible given their combined intelligence, resources and research? It seems like the primary goal in this process would be to make the best, most reasonable argument you could for your pilots, guage as best as possible which way the arbitrator is leaning and then minimize the loss, even if that involves cutting a deal. I just hope that "max pay to the last day" crap wasn't the guiding principle in our dealings with management, especially given the fact that it's arbitration and we don't have the ability to strike. A question for other Alaska pilots... was anyone aware that it was even possible to not have a compromise of some sort on compensation? Personally, had I known this outcome was even a remote possibility (or as it has turned out, highly likely) I would have made some $ adjustments just in case. I truly believed, based on conversations with many senior guys who have seen these things through, that somewhere around 20% was the worst case scenerio.

I guess it's really the same question we're all asking... "What the f--- just happened?"

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

Obviously, it is no doubt that the majority of the airlines are headed by greedy and incompetent individuals who claim to care for their employees. I have painfully learned that Alaska is not immune. Alaska is not at the brink of bankruptcy and if it hadn't been for the "tactical" tax write-offs, Alaska would actually show a profit, IMHO. To take 1/3 of the pay away in the name of "being competitve" is more than a slap in the face; it's start of a lose-lose war. Perhaps, that's what the company wants - to bring down the morale of the work groups, blame the po'd off workers for taking the company into bankruptcy, and take away everything (ie. pension). It's the kind of paycut you'd expect from a company facing chapter 11, if not worse. As the saying goes, you can only kick the golden retreiver so many times before it bites. As for the arbitrator, I highly doubt that he didn't receive any incentives for his ruling. Greed is the cancer.

I'd like to know what happened too. From talking to the older crowd, it seemed like the paycut would be around 15% at the worst. Ayers, in his joke of plan "Vision 2010", wanted a 23% pay reduction. How the xxxx did I end up with a 34% paycut? That's a deadly blow financially if you are living on the west coast. Being in the red financially, beyond that in my case, is a flight safety issue as far as I'm concerned. I know I'm only pi$$in' in the wind but venting is rightfully called for in this situation.

 

[ACAFool]

Just out of curiosity. Any chance the company will come back to the table now for less pay cuts in exchange for a change to the A plan? I am guessing that is all you have to work with right now. Except maybe the offer to make it a 5 yr contract instead of 2.

 

[QCappy]

Although it may not mean much to the guys at Alaska right now, I have talked with several of my fellow QX pilots and we are not only stunned by the results, but are extremely angry with it as well. As the other half of the Air Group we are now going to taxi just as slow behind the eskimo's, etc. and feel it is a blow to us as well.
I haven't been to work since this came down, but I guarantee I will make sure every other captain at Horizon knows my position that we as pilots of the Air Group will not stand for this BS, and will back our brothers at Alaska.

 

[Getter]

Oh Ya, just like they did when QX got their award winning contract with the help of the almighty Teamsters. Whatever.

 

[akairman702]

Let me get this straight... you're comparing Horizon's pre 9/11 contract that awarded significant pay raises to every seat in every aircraft (minus Dash 8 captains) to one that slammed us with an average 28% pay hit?? Are you saying Alaska pilots should have been doing something to help you avenge that 'travesty'? Are you pissed about your contract, pissed that your union isn't working for you or at Alaska pilots? Remember, roughly 25% of us were at Horizon at one point or another, if the shoe were on the other foot you would have our unwavering support.

 

[Carl_Spackler]

This totally sucks. After this the better be growing.

On a side note, pilots have never "taught the company a lesson" for slow taxi and running the apu, etc. If you think mgmt is going to show up at work today and suddenly realize that the pilots are pi$$ed, it's time for you to wake up.

"Our pilots are taxiing slow and running the APU alot, they must be upset...lets give them their money back." Probably not going to happen.

I guarantee you that mgmt know you are pi$$ed, and will remain that way for the next ?? years until a new contract is in place.

The only thing you can do is start saving for you strike fund because I know that every pilot that is still there when a new contract comes due will not forget what has just happened.

 

[FL510GV]

All I can say is that I am very sorry for the Alaska guys. I have many friends flying there and this is a big blow. Best of luck.

 

[alaskaplt]

This totally sucks. After this the better be growing.

On a side note, pilots have never "taught the company a lesson" for slow taxi and running the apu, etc. If you think mgmt is going to show up at work today and suddenly realize that the pilots are pi$$ed, it's time for you to wake up.

"Our pilots are taxiing slow and running the APU alot, they must be upset...lets give them their money back." Probably not going to happen.

I guarantee you that mgmt know you are pi$$ed, and will remain that way for the next ?? years until a new contract is in place.

The only thing you can do is start saving for you strike fund because I know that every pilot that is still there when a new contract comes due will not forget what has just happened.

You don't think United management took notice of what their pilots were doing a few years back. But I agree about saving for the strike fund. Though I believe many Alaska pilots will never be willing to pull that trigger.

 

[DashTrash400]

The more I mull over this, the angrier I get. $35/hr for a first year FO!? Jeeze, I make almost that as a second year QX FO. If that's your only income, you can't live on the west coast for that. And this from a profitable company, just because some hosers ran UA into the ground? Flightinfo would censor any word appropriately strong.

Guys, don't go negative on QX. We are not (fill-in-the-blank parasite regional), willing to grow at your expense... most of us are supportive of the AS pilots. While we're eager for AS to start growing/hiring to get things moving here again, nobody wants it to happen this way. I was flying after this was announced & reaction from QX'ers was pretty uniformly negative. I wouldn't expect to see E190s for pay freezes here, & when our own contact negotiations start I suspect we'll be taxiing/flying just as, eh, "safe" as you.

 

[pilotyip]

$43.86/hr

USA Jet DA-20 F/O makes $43.86/hr. We all know what will happen even at $35/hr. No intent to flame, it is the nature of the business. At the next Air Inc show where Alaska announces they are interviewing again, they will have a very long line.

 

[G100driver]

If you do not think that $@#t rolls downhill then I think that you are mistaken. For years Alaska has said that it did not want to be the industry leaders when it comes to pay. Their stated goal was to pay 90% of what the Legacy carriers were paying.

I know, no flames intended ... I will keep it nice, just making sure that reality sinks in Michigan. Your pay might be next. I know that my boss takes notice when airlines cut pay. I am sure that your boss knows as well. After, USA-Jet never intened to have industry leading pay, did it?

 

[Corona]

This totally sucks. After this the better be growing.

On a side note, pilots have never "taught the company a lesson" for slow taxi and running the apu, etc. If you think mgmt is going to show up at work today and suddenly realize that the pilots are pi$$ed, it's time for you to wake up.

"Our pilots are taxiing slow and running the APU alot, they must be upset...lets give them their money back." Probably not going to happen.

I guarantee you that mgmt know you are pi$$ed, and will remain that way for the next ?? years until a new contract is in place.

The only thing you can do is start saving for you strike fund because I know that every pilot that is still there when a new contract comes due will not forget what has just happened.

I wonder if management would notice if crews started flying lower. How much more fuel does a 737NG use, say, flying SEA to PSP @ FL190? That would be fun to see.

C

 

[BORAT]

I wonder if management would notice if crews started flying lower. How much more fuel does a 737NG use, say, flying SEA to PSP @ FL190? That would be fun to see.

C

We'll just have to find out! FL190 is a little high though...

Just call me #6!

 

[Carl_Spackler]

I wonder if management would notice if crews started flying lower. How much more fuel does a 737NG use, say, flying SEA to PSP @ FL190? That would be fun to see.

If you always want to board extra fuel, fly much lower than filed, and burn more gas, I guarantee you that it will raise some flags and you will make a trip to the CP's office for a carpet dance.

What are you going to say to keep your job?

 

[QCappy]

Oh Ya, just like they did when QX got their award winning contract with the help of the almighty Teamsters. Whatever.

WTF is that supposed to mean? You need to stop drinking. Our pay rates went up significantly. I got about a 50% pay raise at the time. Some of the other crap does suck, but hey, it sure as hell wasn't a 26% pay cut.

 

[mach none]

WTF is that supposed to mean? You need to stop drinking. Our pay rates went up significantly. I got about a 50% pay raise at the time. Some of the other crap does suck, but hey, it sure as hell wasn't a 26% pay cut.

When they are done with us, they will come after you. I would suggest preparing now.

 

[ILStoMinimums]

UNBELIEVABLE! Flx, let us all know if UPS gives you te yea, really hope they do!!! Did you interview for an intstructor position or as a line pilot?

 

[Hpilot]

pay cut

I was very sorry to hear of the pay cuts. I grew up in Western WA and have always liked Alaska. That first year pay will be painfull. I took over a $30,000 a year pay cut coming to HP at $38/hr. Best of luck to those involved.