Alaska Airlines Furloughs

[sf340flyer]

Sorry your rep didn't give you the infomation. If he didn't explain it, then he might not understand. It isn't as simple as it looks. The 205 was set as a number by the union when the LOA was signed. That is all I can say in a public forum.

Right now the company did something to personally impact you. The union upheld their previous agreement, and you have been impacted by driving to LAX instead of SNA, and now a commute to ANC. The union didn't do any of this, it was all the company. The union isn't up for degrading our contract as a reaction to the companies move. If we start now, it will never end until we don't have a contract anymore.

Sorry you were personally impacted by the companies actions, hopefully you can be back in LA with a co-terminal and a new contract shortly. Time will only tell.

 

[turbodriver]

Turbo, your "Arctic Eagle" image is really coming through. Okay first off, the NMB has NOTHING to do with our current contract. The NMB is only an oversight board for current negotiations. The legal process dealing with violations of our CBA is an Arbitrator. Read the MEC update from today, it explains this in detail.

"I was told," that is your first mistake, taking 2nd hand information as the truth. There were only 13 pilots on the RBBP in Feb.

The EOs, yes they did save jobs. The furloughed number would have been increased by 47 more if it wasn't for the EO.

I would like to know what Red Tape you are talking about with the HCA. The first reimbursements are going out this week. As far as the money going into ALPA's pocket. You must have not read the HCA information, as when the fund is closed, the money will be returned to the pilots. So please share what the red tape is.

So please get informed before you make statements next time. With someone like you, no matter what I say, you will always be correct (with your 2nd hand information).

Who told you 13? I was informed by the guy running the damm thing. You're right the NMB is an oversight board that assigns arbitrators to particular cases. Which is what happened in this case. So NMB is involved. (indirectly at this point if you want to get techinical about it)

The rep tape Im talking about is that you have to pay for COBRA yourself, submit for reimbursement, submit paperwork to verify that you have no job, submit paperwork if you do have other coverage, etc, etc. And who knows how long all this will actually take. The first 32 are about to find out. Again, the guy running the program told me this, so I'm not going to go as far to say that this info is second hand when it comes from the horses mouth.

So how many actual EO's were there??

And dont give me this "arctic eagle" and "alaska spirit" crap. All that is now out the window and it's going to take a he!! of a lot on managements part till it comes back....

 

[Fubijaakr]

The past history with our CBA and company paid moves from displacements only cover household. This has been based on your address on file with the company. Feel free to file a grievance, but be ready for it take years to get resolved with no money for you..

Actually, the Company will pay to move household goods AND vehicles BUT you have to move to/from your new base.

They did it for me twice without complaint.

I'm not sure if this guy is trying to get the Company to pay for a vehicle move to a crash pad, but if so, my reading of the contract says the Company doesn't have to pay for that.

 

[CGHercster]

Push it through! TSA gangstas

Oh, worry not my friend. We have a lot of VSA'ers who are more than willing to step up to the plate and help out in times of need.

Along that line, we have plenty of FOs sucking up all the OF flying in 1st and 2nd step pushing their lines up to 85. That's why there's now about 10 less OF lines than predicted upon bid award each month instead of 10 more like last year. Get it while it's hot!

 

[Going2Baja]

Right now the company did something to personally impact you. The union upheld their previous agreement, and you have been impacted by driving to LAX instead of SNA, and now a commute to ANC. The union didn't do any of this, it was all the company. The union isn't up for degrading our contract as a reaction to the companies move. If we start now, it will never end until we don't have a contract anymore.

The company did something that personally impacted the entire base, not just me. And actually I was one of the least affected as I am back on reserve after holding months of SNA flying. It is my feeling that the MEC should be looking out for it's members, and if there was a chance to hold onto the SNA flying by reducing the 205 then they should have done it. By not doing it we lost the flying anyway. So who here lost? The pilots, the LOCAL pilots - not the guys sitting in SEA in the offices across from the sims, but the guys driving to work down here in So Cal. Most of the guys impacted have over 30 years and are Jet-A...not junior pukes like myself.

As for the move - ONCE AGAIN. If you read section 6 on moves it breaks the moves into two parts - company paid moves and pilot paid move. Reductions are company paid moves. In this section it states what the company will pay for. NO WHERE does it say that a car move is associated ONLY with an entire household. I've talked at length with my base chief regarding this and he passed the word from SEA. "It's not going to happen." OK - I GET IT. My point is that if we can't read our contract and the union ISN'T going to support what is in writing then why are we trying so hard for a new contract that we won't support anyway? I've been told that there is some magical manual that talks about the intent and language of each section dating back YEARS...What the F is this? I'm filing the grievance as are the many others being displaced. We'll see what happens.

Baja.

 

[Fubijaakr]

If you look closely at the demographic of the 2nd floor, you'll find that most of them are ex-JetA.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Read Sect 6 dude. It states what the Co will pay for if it's a company paid move. I does NOT state differences between household or crash pad.

Actually I'll quote it for you. Here's the conditions under which the Company will pay to ship your vehicle:


2.

Displacement out of Domicile: A pilot who is displaced and must relocate to a new domicile, if:

a. the pilot must transfer to avoid downgrade, or
b. there are no positions available in a pilot's status or a lower status in his current domicile.​

So the question becomes this. Are you affected? Were you displaced from LAX or did you bid out? Were you a a forced downgrade? If either of these apply the Company owes you moving expenses IF you move your whole household to ANC. Why? Here's the single line that wipes out your argument:​

B. ​

Moves at Company Expense

The Company will pay moving expenses as specified in Section 6.C [Allowance] as follows:​

The 'as specified' means EVERYTHING that is specified. If you read all of 6C it refers to moving your entire household. Legalese, for sure, but that's the past practice. You move the whole kit and kaboodle to ANC, you get moving expenses. You choose to commute, they move stuff on our airplanes space available and you get D8Y commuter status for getting to and from work.

You can't sharpshoot what you want the Company to move for you. Well, I guess you can try, but as the Reps said, the only way you're going to win this one is to pay for it, grieve the Section of the contract and hope you win to recover the money.

Personally, I'd just commute up there and get an airport car.



​

 

[Going2Baja]

Actually I'll quote it for you. Here's the conditions under which the Company will pay to ship your vehicle:


2.

Displacement out of Domicile: A pilot who is displaced and must relocate to a new domicile, if:

a. the pilot must transfer to avoid downgrade, or
b. there are no positions available in a pilot's status or a lower status in his current domicile.​

So the question becomes this. Are you affected? Were you displaced from LAX or did you bid out? Were you a a forced downgrade? If either of these apply the Company owes you moving expenses IF you move your whole household to ANC. Why? Here's the single line that wipes out your argument:​

B. ​

Moves at Company Expense

The Company will pay moving expenses as specified in Section 6.C [Allowance] as follows:​

The 'as specified' means EVERYTHING that is specified. If you read all of 6C it refers to moving your entire household. Legalese, for sure, but that's the past practice. You move the whole kit and kaboodle to ANC, you get moving expenses. You choose to commute, they move stuff on our airplanes space available and you get D8Y commuter status for getting to and from work.

You can't sharpshoot what you want the Company to move for you. Well, I guess you can try, but as the Reps said, the only way you're going to win this one is to pay for it, grieve the Section of the contract and hope you win to recover the money.

Personally, I'd just commute up there and get an airport car.



​

Thanks for typing the contact and saving me the time.

Yes I was displaced from Sect 6 B 2b - as were many other f/o's.

So we agree that this qualifies as a "Moves at Company Expense." I've run the "The company will pay moving expenses as specified in Section 6.C [Allowance] as follows:" by three attorneys, my base f/o rep, and my CP and not a single one reads it as you just did. There clearly isn't any language in the contract that shows that the all or none of the items in Section 6 C must be together.

Where is your dog in this fight? I thought you were Mr. Pro Union - all for your Union brothers...

The message I received from my rep is to spear head this and get all affected and submit the entire group as a 'class action' style grievance. If ew are reading this wrong and it could be pointed out to use I'd have no problem saying ok, but there's not. I also understand that after I'm able to bid back to LAX that any moving will be on my dime as I'm the one requesting the transfer.

I'm over this...I'll let you know how it turns out.

Baja Out.

 

[Going2Baja]

Along that line, we have plenty of FOs sucking up all the OF flying in 1st and 2nd step pushing their lines up to 85. That's why there's now about 10 less OF lines than predicted upon bid award each month instead of 10 more like last year. Get it while it's hot!

Not just F/O's sorry...plenty of Capt's doing the same thing. What's the point of the Union reducing the lines if everyone is picking up to 85? Some unity.

Baja.

 

[Mookie]

First question to any captain you fly with from now on should be "how many hours is your line this month?" if it's over 80 (allowing for some overage)...then that should be a quiet cockpit other than normal checklists. Apathy is so ingrained in the culture it's maddening.

Mookie