Alaska Airlines Furloughs

[Fubijaakr]

If you look closely at the demographic of the 2nd floor, you'll find that most of them are ex-JetA.

 

[Fubijaakr]

Read Sect 6 dude. It states what the Co will pay for if it's a company paid move. I does NOT state differences between household or crash pad.

Actually I'll quote it for you. Here's the conditions under which the Company will pay to ship your vehicle:


2.

Displacement out of Domicile: A pilot who is displaced and must relocate to a new domicile, if:

a. the pilot must transfer to avoid downgrade, or
b. there are no positions available in a pilot's status or a lower status in his current domicile.​

So the question becomes this. Are you affected? Were you displaced from LAX or did you bid out? Were you a a forced downgrade? If either of these apply the Company owes you moving expenses IF you move your whole household to ANC. Why? Here's the single line that wipes out your argument:​

B. ​

Moves at Company Expense

The Company will pay moving expenses as specified in Section 6.C [Allowance] as follows:​

The 'as specified' means EVERYTHING that is specified. If you read all of 6C it refers to moving your entire household. Legalese, for sure, but that's the past practice. You move the whole kit and kaboodle to ANC, you get moving expenses. You choose to commute, they move stuff on our airplanes space available and you get D8Y commuter status for getting to and from work.

You can't sharpshoot what you want the Company to move for you. Well, I guess you can try, but as the Reps said, the only way you're going to win this one is to pay for it, grieve the Section of the contract and hope you win to recover the money.

Personally, I'd just commute up there and get an airport car.



​

 

[Going2Baja]

Actually I'll quote it for you. Here's the conditions under which the Company will pay to ship your vehicle:


2.

Displacement out of Domicile: A pilot who is displaced and must relocate to a new domicile, if:

a. the pilot must transfer to avoid downgrade, or
b. there are no positions available in a pilot's status or a lower status in his current domicile.​

So the question becomes this. Are you affected? Were you displaced from LAX or did you bid out? Were you a a forced downgrade? If either of these apply the Company owes you moving expenses IF you move your whole household to ANC. Why? Here's the single line that wipes out your argument:​

B. ​

Moves at Company Expense

The Company will pay moving expenses as specified in Section 6.C [Allowance] as follows:​

The 'as specified' means EVERYTHING that is specified. If you read all of 6C it refers to moving your entire household. Legalese, for sure, but that's the past practice. You move the whole kit and kaboodle to ANC, you get moving expenses. You choose to commute, they move stuff on our airplanes space available and you get D8Y commuter status for getting to and from work.

You can't sharpshoot what you want the Company to move for you. Well, I guess you can try, but as the Reps said, the only way you're going to win this one is to pay for it, grieve the Section of the contract and hope you win to recover the money.

Personally, I'd just commute up there and get an airport car.



​

Thanks for typing the contact and saving me the time.

Yes I was displaced from Sect 6 B 2b - as were many other f/o's.

So we agree that this qualifies as a "Moves at Company Expense." I've run the "The company will pay moving expenses as specified in Section 6.C [Allowance] as follows:" by three attorneys, my base f/o rep, and my CP and not a single one reads it as you just did. There clearly isn't any language in the contract that shows that the all or none of the items in Section 6 C must be together.

Where is your dog in this fight? I thought you were Mr. Pro Union - all for your Union brothers...

The message I received from my rep is to spear head this and get all affected and submit the entire group as a 'class action' style grievance. If ew are reading this wrong and it could be pointed out to use I'd have no problem saying ok, but there's not. I also understand that after I'm able to bid back to LAX that any moving will be on my dime as I'm the one requesting the transfer.

I'm over this...I'll let you know how it turns out.

Baja Out.

 

[Going2Baja]

Along that line, we have plenty of FOs sucking up all the OF flying in 1st and 2nd step pushing their lines up to 85. That's why there's now about 10 less OF lines than predicted upon bid award each month instead of 10 more like last year. Get it while it's hot!

Not just F/O's sorry...plenty of Capt's doing the same thing. What's the point of the Union reducing the lines if everyone is picking up to 85? Some unity.

Baja.

 

[Mookie]

First question to any captain you fly with from now on should be "how many hours is your line this month?" if it's over 80 (allowing for some overage)...then that should be a quiet cockpit other than normal checklists. Apathy is so ingrained in the culture it's maddening.

Mookie

 

[Fubijaakr]

Baja,

I am. I'm just telling you the past practice. Go for it!

 

[tico]

This is for everyone hired after May 1st, 2005...... If you had not listened to your daddy or your sugar daddy or your wifes daddy or you wifes sugar daddy or in some cases your husbands sugar daddy and done your own thinking....(not what you typically find in you typical silver spoon alaska airlines copilot) than you would have realized that this place is a $hithole and is likely to continue to be a $hithole and in fact has always been a $hithole........ I have listened to all of you tell me how it is better then (insert large regional airline here)but all of you were senior captains and check airman( well almost all of you)some were just entitlement copilots and some were typical myopic military pilots but you all had a job at the top of your local food chain....You listened to the siren song coming from your checkairman friend(for you military types)or your daddy or your daddys friend etc...for the rest of you....And boom...your little dream threw a rod(pm me if you need an explanation of that term)And now you are furloughed or being force based etc......booh efin hoo.....All of the hiring from jan of 07 on and all of the upgrades were for the purpose of removing the MD-80 from the fleet...period..Those in the know at the time were quite liberal with that information....It is called a training bubble... unfortunateley for y'all, age 65 hit at the same time and the economy took a ********************ter....course the economy takin' a ********************ter could be seen from 3-5 years away......So your out of a job or you aint a captain anymore ore you have to move to a new base....tough $hit.....I have sent about three grand towards the furloughed dudes and dudetes to help them find a home depot job etc....for all the rest of you winey cry babies....get over it...I am making room for someone on march 2nd to stay at this house of cards......yea I lost my capt. seat to some LA guy but I got sick of the noise and just plain quit.....No job to go to but at least I wont have to sit in the right seat and listen to some punk who lands half way down the runway how bad he got screwed........ oh yea and to all of the vsa w************************* and the over 60 w*************************.....none of whom have donated a dime to help your furloughed brothers and sisters....may parkinsons come early to you............................Done here

 

[igneousy2]

I am tired of all the complaining about the SNA co-terminal going away.

We have an agreement and we need to enforce our agreement. We cannot pick and choose which provisions of the agreement we enforce just because it inconviniences a relative handful of our pilots.

The co-terminal is a benefit to the COMPANY. And if they want the benefit of being able to have a co-terminal then they need to abide by the contract.

 

[Snapshot]

for all the rest of you winey cry babies....get over it...I am making room for someone on march 2nd to stay at this house of cards.....I got sick of the noise and just plain quit.....

You calling other pilots whiners really made my day. Nice to have a good laugh in tough times.:laugh:

If you really did pull the trigger, thanks for keeping me from having to sit next to your bitter, bitter, miserable, bitter self.
With any luck, Lollipop Airlines will be looking for people to do the Gumdrop Mountain run.


Seriously, though, thanks for donating to the furloughees. It takes a lot to give to people you hold in such contempt.

 

[Going2Baja]

I am tired of all the complaining about the SNA co-terminal going away.

.....just because it inconviniences a relative handful of our pilots.

The co-terminal is a benefit to the COMPANY. And if they want the benefit of being able to have a co-terminal then they need to abide by the contract.

You must be a SEA or ANC guy....Thanks for the well wishes. Can't wait to fly w/ you - should be a blast talking about snow blowers or your local ice fishing hole.

And once again - It may have been a benefit for the CO but it was also a benefit for the local dues paying pilots.

Bottom line - Go blow your snow blower!

Baja.

 

[Chief Pilot]

Wow.

I've been gone for a couple weeks and was surprised to come back to so much infighting. The one thing we can all agree on is that the current situation stinks and management's process has apparently delivered the desired results.

Stay the course folks. It will only get better if we don't implode and let management win this.

 

[Ih8AFYesmen]

This is for everyone hired after May 1st, 2005...... If you had not listened to your daddy or your sugar daddy or your wifes daddy or you wifes sugar daddy or in some cases your husbands sugar daddy and done your own thinking....(not what you typically find in you typical silver spoon alaska airlines copilot) than you would have realized that this place is a $hithole and is likely to continue to be a $hithole and in fact has always been a $hithole........ I have listened to all of you tell me how it is better then (insert large regional airline here)but all of you were senior captains and check airman( well almost all of you)some were just entitlement copilots and some were typical myopic military pilots but you all had a job at the top of your local food chain....You listened to the siren song coming from your checkairman friend(for you military types)or your daddy or your daddys friend etc...for the rest of you....And boom...your little dream threw a rod(pm me if you need an explanation of that term)And now you are furloughed or being force based etc......booh efin hoo.....All of the hiring from jan of 07 on and all of the upgrades were for the purpose of removing the MD-80 from the fleet...period..Those in the know at the time were quite liberal with that information....It is called a training bubble... unfortunateley for y'all, age 65 hit at the same time and the economy took a ********************ter....course the economy takin' a ********************ter could be seen from 3-5 years away......So your out of a job or you aint a captain anymore ore you have to move to a new base....tough $hit.....I have sent about three grand towards the furloughed dudes and dudetes to help them find a home depot job etc....for all the rest of you winey cry babies....get over it...I am making room for someone on march 2nd to stay at this house of cards......yea I lost my capt. seat to some LA guy but I got sick of the noise and just plain quit.....No job to go to but at least I wont have to sit in the right seat and listen to some punk who lands half way down the runway how bad he got screwed........ oh yea and to all of the vsa w************************* and the over 60 w*************************.....none of whom have donated a dime to help your furloughed brothers and sisters....may parkinsons come early to you............................Done here

Did you really quit or go on LOA? Either way, good luck to you.

 

[becket]

Did you really quit or go on LOA? Either way, good luck to you.

Hopefully going to rehab...

 

[Mamma]

This is for everyone hired after May 1st, 2005...... If you had not listened to your daddy or your sugar daddy or your wifes daddy or you wifes sugar daddy or in some cases your husbands sugar daddy and done your own thinking....(not what you typically find in you typical silver spoon alaska airlines copilot) than you would have realized that this place is a $hithole and is likely to continue to be a $hithole and in fact has always been a $hithole........ I have listened to all of you tell me how it is better then (insert large regional airline here)but all of you were senior captains and check airman( well almost all of you)some were just entitlement copilots and some were typical myopic military pilots but you all had a job at the top of your local food chain....You listened to the siren song coming from your checkairman friend(for you military types)or your daddy or your daddys friend etc...for the rest of you....And boom...your little dream threw a rod(pm me if you need an explanation of that term)And now you are furloughed or being force based etc......booh efin hoo.....All of the hiring from jan of 07 on and all of the upgrades were for the purpose of removing the MD-80 from the fleet...period..Those in the know at the time were quite liberal with that information....It is called a training bubble... unfortunateley for y'all, age 65 hit at the same time and the economy took a ********************ter....course the economy takin' a ********************ter could be seen from 3-5 years away......So your out of a job or you aint a captain anymore ore you have to move to a new base....tough $hit.....I have sent about three grand towards the furloughed dudes and dudetes to help them find a home depot job etc....for all the rest of you winey cry babies....get over it...I am making room for someone on march 2nd to stay at this house of cards......yea I lost my capt. seat to some LA guy but I got sick of the noise and just plain quit.....No job to go to but at least I wont have to sit in the right seat and listen to some punk who lands half way down the runway how bad he got screwed........ oh yea and to all of the vsa w************************* and the over 60 w*************************.....none of whom have donated a dime to help your furloughed brothers and sisters....may parkinsons come early to you............................Done here

Holy Cow! You actually quit. I would have waited or gone on a LOA to see what the contract would have turned out as....I doubt it will be what we want but it might be in the ballpark. I and many I know were hired after May 2005 and I have not heard much crying. Most of us knew what we were getting into and it is what it is. I cannot complain about the payrates as I signed up with them in place. It is an entirely different story with those that were raped by Kasher and the company. The problem is the company has the upper hand and they do what managements do...they hang onto it all costs. Look at the great results the pilot group is giving them....why should they be in any rush to change the status quo? With that in mind, none of their games suprise me in the slightest. It will take a strike or the midnight before one before they are forced to act. That is what I expected all the time. I personally don't think you will be downgraded for long. We are having a tough time with reserves on a winter schedule so I don't see how they plan on running a summer schedule with such low numbers. Try not to take it personal even though it is incredibly hard to not do so. Bill is a bean counter, not a leader. Knowing that makes it easy to predict what he will do and you will not be suprised. The company and analysts are saying Alaska is well postured for this and next year even with the recession. It might be worth your time to hold out a few more months.