AirTran Road show Pairings

[DougCorp-9]

Are we paranoid. Look the numbers and settings are what is in the computer. Those rigs drive the numbers not JT with a evil leer. Your right it is so not in the companies interest to fly you, it so much better to hire more pilots so they can make you sit in the hotel. Go look and ask questions. I have had some history with these things in the past so your fears are unfounded im my opinion. But go look dont just take my word for it.

Klaus. Is that you?

 

[Just thinking]

4th time a charm???

Company has stepped up the offer for Midwest four times.... We are supposed to agree to this TA on the first go around??? I do not think so. The union is stating that the company will proffer for release from the current contract and impose this upon the pilot group. When I replied that the company is not in bankruptcy and they can't do this, the response is "they can still ask." Sad but true. Biggest frustration is the misdirections and out and out lies that they are saying trying to get this thing passed. Take the time to read Lear's analysis and arm yourself with the fact.

 

[CitationLover]

Company has stepped up the offer for Midwest four times.... We are supposed to agree to this TA on the first go around??? I do not think so. The union is stating that the company will proffer for release from the current contract and impose this upon the pilot group. When I replied that the company is not in bankruptcy and they can't do this, the response is "they can still ask." Sad but true. Biggest frustration is the misdirections and out and out lies that they are saying trying to get this thing passed. Take the time to read Lear's analysis and arm yourself with the fact.

let them try and impose terms. tell the "union" guy then why the f@#$ do they negotiate for anything since "they can still ask" for whatever they want.

hey joe, this is not the way to endear yourself to the MEH employees.

 

[Lear70]

I 2nd that, we need to get some sickers made "LEAR 70 for BOD Chair".:beer: . He can elect all the guys that help him with a couple of other section, you know who you are.

No, not a great idea.

I appreciate the support from everyone, especially since this has put me under the company microscope, but I haven't even reached my 2nd anniversary with this company yet and, although I have experience with different committees at my previous carrier, I don't have MEC leadership experience.

This is a critical time for AirTran, and the NPA needs someone in the driver's seat who is aggressive yet experienced with this company's history and leadership.

We're going to be put on ice for up to 5 months after we vote NO on this. The NPA has said this is a "cooling off" period (it's not, they're using bad terminology) but it WILL be a chance to get our house in order (replace the NC and certain BOD positions who are hard-core supporters of this T.A.) and get new data on the minimum contract requirements for the pilots now that everyone is aware of what COULD happen and what they really want.

I'd serve on the Negotiating Committee if asked, but I really think we need someone more experienced with this company in the driver's seat so close to the end-game with both the contract AND the Midwest acquisition.

 

[Ty Webb]

Need two MAAS on Norman Berry Drive

let them try and impose terms. .

They can't change the stauts quo during negotiations, and we're in negotiations until we're released, which is a long way from where we are now.

About the only change that will happen after this POS gets the smack-down will be that a call will go out for 2 MAAS on Norman Berry Drive . . . to help Skipper and Allen find Concourse C so they can return to the line.


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[The Victors]

Went to the road show today, and CK had the new TA pairings available. Sits still are around but they seems to be shorter. A lot more variations on 2, 3 and 4 day trips. The days with flying under our current 4 hour min duty was VERY small. But the increase in flying per day was VERY serious. 3 days worth around 20 hours and 4 days with 25 to 28 hours wow, some not al. They looked good to me, better than what we have now. The average duty period didnt look that much longer than now. Oh and with a 1:2 the CDO's seemed to pay better that just the 4 hour duty period. Go check it out and decide for yourselves. The documentation was for a full month and not just a straw pole.

Just curious, but WTF does it matter if you have a high block 3 day if your pay is below industry standard? Is or is not this TA a pay cut when considering cola?

 

[Lear70]

Oh by the way, don't know if you guys know but our ALPA MEC is planning a big showing of support to the company stand alone plans by marching to the BoD meeting on the 14th. in full uniform. Plus the company is asking all employee who are off during the meeting to attend to show support for the company.

No, I didn't. No one's paying as much attention to the Midwest deal right now as we were - bigger fish to fry and all that.

I'm sure this is what AAI management had in mind all along - keep us occupied with a contract vote, make it look like we have our labor problems fixed (haven't heard even a WHISPER in the media that we might vote this down), and keep us from marching at your BOD meeting regarding our contract.

If you were marching in support of your company AND we were there marching in protest of ours, it might make a real difference. Very well-played by our management team.

Personally, I expect AirTran to be successful in getting their slate of BOD members elected. I then expect it to do very little good and your BOD to still turn down AirTran's purchase offer. I then expect AirTran to bide their time for another year, maybe go after Frontier for a mutually-accepted merger in the meantime.

I also expect this T.A. to fail and the company to basically stop negotiating for months and, even then, return to the old-style bargaining until we're back here again, this time next year, trying to get the next 3 members of the BOD elected to finish forcing this through.

THEN, I expect the company to be forced into a position to submit something worth ratifying, as we will hopefully have NPA leadership that won't squander every advantage this pilot group gets.

Good luck to all,,,

 

[Lear70]

Just curious, but WTF does it matter if you have a high block 3 day if your pay is below industry standard? Is or is not this TA a pay cut when considering cola?

Not quite; it's a 1% raise IF you're one of the people in the 13% pay bracket.

Otherwise, yeah, it's a pay cut.

Using round numbers:

Raise from $100 per hour to $113 per hour (13%). 7.5% of that was COLA for the last 3 years with no COLA raises (using 2.5% per year - the most conservative of the Consumer Price Index or inflation numbers from each year).

That leaves 5.5% of that raise, or $5.50 per hour in pure increase.

Doing the research on the cuts from "core block" and "door close" and NOT applying them cumulatively, but only where each applied, we came up with 3 "brackets": the highest cut we ever calculated was a 7% loss. The average was 5%, the minimum was a 3% pay cut.

Remember, those will be a decrease from the NEW pay rates, or how much we will lose off our "NEW" pay from the loss of those concessions, respectively.

3% of $113 per hour is $3.39 per hour give-back. Since, adjusted for COLA, the true "raise" off the 13% bracket guys is $5.50, you now only get a $1.11 per hour raise.

5% off $113 per hour is $5.65 per hour give-back. Compared to the $5.50 raise, you now gave back an extra $0.15 cents per hour in total concessions, adjusted for COLA.

7% is obviously even worse than that.

For the pilots who only got a 9% raise, 7.5% of that was COLA just to bring you BACK to what you were making before the contract became amendable in equivalent dollars. That's obviously eaten up with the 3% MINIMUM give-back in work rules, so you'll be making less than COLA no matter which bracket you fall in.

If you got less than 9%, you're just hosed. Period.

I'm sending all of this to all the BOD members as soon as I get the Sec. 13 stuff back from BD. No one will be able to claim that "they didn't know" all the pros AND cons to this T.A. If they ratify it, so be it.

 

[ATLplt]

BFL, You're entitled to your own opinion, but I hope you like 86 seat RJ's rapidly growing our routes instead of our own. It doesn't take a road show to figure that out. This WILL get voted down. Why not vote to help it go down with some authority?

 

[DASHDRIVER]

I have been reading all of these threds with great intrest as a soon to be Midwest guy and one thing continues to puzzle me. Has Airtran not been a generally profitable company for the last five years while everyone else has been suffering? I do not get why there is even this big of a discussion inside the pilot group. There should not be one single consessionary item acceptable in this TA. What reason are they giving you guys at the show for these needed cuts? Scope (have you guys been watching what has happened all over this country), Ready Reserve at outstations (Christ MESA doesn't even do that), Average pay days; sometimes I forget I am reading a Major airlines contract! Meger is somthing that would scare me from another side of the fence. But honestly how much damage can 350 Midwest pilots do to a seniority list of your size? Fence, the upgrades for a while, protect ATL for everyone that wants to be there and presto, a fairly painless merger.

I for one can not believe that my current workrules at Air Wisconsin provide what appears to be better protections than this TA does. Please educate me if I am wrong. Good luck to all of you, I am hoping for the best. This is probably going to be my contract sooner or latter.

DD