AirTran Road show Pairings

[Lear70]

You're not wrong.

The big push by the NPA is summed up by one phrase: industry average

1. They're saying that the industry average among major airlines is to allow Scope of this range. They have not given a single good reason why we should give this up, except that it's industry average.

2. They're saying that wheel movement for pay is industry average (even though it's door closed and beacon on for Delta who our pay rates are compared to).

3. They're NOT saying our pay rates are industry average, they're just comparing them to Delta which is in bankruptcy and below the average.

Other than that, they say that "the pie is only so big" and they had to give up those items to get those pay rates which are, as far as I can say, almost cost-neutral when COLA is considered.

I can't believe that there are people buying into it (and there are more every day). They are VERY convincing at the road shows, which is why there is a group of us trying to spread the truth behind the smoke and mirrors.

Pilots WANT to believe their fellow pilots. You have two choices: believe THEY were sold a bill of goods by the NC and AP and are going with it OR believe you are being sold a bill of goods by a group of people you trusted to protect your interests.

Either way, it's hard to admit you were wrong to trust them (either group), and that's sometimes hard to do.

 

[BFL370]

Guys you have your minds make up come hell or high water, just do me one thing. Read the "RLA for Dummies" some of you have no idea what the company or the union can do legaly. But you just may find out and I hope for all of us it is not hard class. Peace out.

 

[Lear70]

The ONLY thing the company can do, when this T.A. is voted down, is either come back to the table or ask the mediator to be released, a cooling off period imposed, then allow the company to impose the contract of their choosing. The arbitrator may, or MAY NOT agree to the company's request.

If the arbitrator does allow it, at that same time, we will also be released into self-help.

It's a double-edged sword, you don't get one without the other, and your reading would have revealed that. This would be the absolute WORST time for the company to have a work stoppage: right after they get their 3 BOD members elected to the MEH BOD and they're trying to persuade the REST of the merger-hostile board at Midwest to sell to us, we go out on strike, even a short-term strike or selected CHAOS?

You're telling me you actually BELIEVE the company would risk that?

Not to mention, the LAST time an airline tried to lock employee groups out of work without replacement workers standing by, it cost the airline ITS EXISTENCE.

Somehow, given that a few of our management team were around for that mess, I doubt they'd try all that again. Unlike Eastern, AirTran is not worth more in pieces than as a whole.

Come back to the table or asked to be released into self-help/contract imposition. There ARE no other legal options per the RLA.

 

[DougCorp-9]

Guys you have your minds make up come hell or high water, just do me one thing. Read the "RLA for Dummies" some of you have no idea what the company or the union can do legaly. But you just may find out and I hope for all of us it is not hard class. Peace out.

I know that the company can't impose Sh!t until we are released from mediation. After that they are free to impose whatever they want but we are also free to stop flying the airplanes. The way this place is run it would only take 150 pilots not showing up to completly turn this place upside down. He!!, I can't even swap a trip because they never have any reserves!

 

[Citrusflyer]

Here's a thought, call me crazy or just uninformed.....But why can't this "TA" be recalled and reworked by both sides?

From everyone I talked to this thing is going down, it's just a matter of how hard (and it's looking like it will be by a somewhat sizable margin).

The company, and the NPA, has told us that they want this settled so they can concentrate on the potential merger with Midwest. Everything in the TA is being sold basically under the auspices that management has turned over a new leaf, so to speak, and is more willing to work with us (hence the many "improvements" that are NOT in writing). If those assumptions are true (I know, who am I kidding?) AND if both management and the NPA know this thing is doomed, then why don't they save a lot of time, effort and pain and pull the TA back, work on it, and send us a new one?

There are only three possibilities from this point forward, without that happening.
(1) The TA passes, the point is moot. Except for the potential of the mass exodus of pilots afterward.
(2) The TA fails by a narrow margin, and the pilots loose all power to improve their position in the follow-on negotiations.
(3) The TA fails big, and the reverse is true for (although less so) for management.

If #2 ro 3 occurs the cost of doing business here will go up tremendously. The "do your job" mantra will become reality, and the company's bottom line will most likely take a hit. And the pilots will have to fight it out another year to get any improvement over the abortion of a TA we now are presented with.

It seems to me that IF the union and management want this done painlessly then they should open their collective eyes, eat some crow and get this done. If it's business as usual, then both sides will most likely take their chances and hope that their respective best case scenario comes true.

The way I see it, if both sides are serious in their statements; management wanting this done with a decent outcome, and the union in that they are representing the best interest of the pilot group, then reworking this now, before the voting starts is the best-case-scenario for all.

 

[CitationLover]

don't buy this TA needs to be done now nonsense. a merger with MEH, if announced 6/14, would take a LONG time to happen (look at AAA/AWA). at WORST, 400 MEH pilots are on top with 1600 (thats 4 times as large) AAI guys stapled (that ain't gonna happen).

 

[Lear70]

don't buy this TA needs to be done now nonsense. a merger with MEH, if announced 6/14, would take a LONG time to happen (look at AAA/AWA). at WORST, 400 MEH pilots are on top with 1600 (thats 4 times as large) AAI guys stapled (that ain't gonna happen).

That's not what the NPA says they're afraid of.

The fear-mongering that's going on is saying that AirTran buys Midwest, we turn down this T.A., then the company decides not to integrate AirTran and Midwest, and sends all our 737 deliveries to Midwest while they stagnate us and refuse to negotiate a new contract except to meet as the mediator orders them to.

That's why I've pointed out that the company doesn't have that option. It's completely baseless, and the merger "language" in the T.A. is completely USELESS as it doesn't bind the holding company, and THAT'S WHO'S BUYING MIDWEST!!

I can't believe people are even buying into that whole deal, but that's one of the 3 things people take away from the roadshows.

 

[CitationLover]

That's not what the NPA says they're afraid of.

The fear-mongering that's going on is saying that AirTran buys Midwest, we turn down this T.A., then the company decides not to integrate AirTran and Midwest, and sends all our 737 deliveries to Midwest while they stagnate us and refuse to negotiate a new contract except to meet as the mediator orders them to.

That's why I've pointed out that the company doesn't have that option. It's completely baseless, and the merger "language" in the T.A. is completely USELESS as it doesn't bind the holding company, and THAT'S WHO'S BUYING MIDWEST!!

I can't believe people are even buying into that whole deal, but that's one of the 3 things people take away from the roadshows.

well if your worst comes to fruition, as you and i have both stated, the NPA HAS LEGAL GROUNDS TO A SINGLE CARRIER PETITION. thus, the scaring is all unwarranted again.

 

[Ace McCoy]

Guys you have your minds make up come hell or high water, just do me one thing. Read the "RLA for Dummies" some of you have no idea what the company or the union can do legaly. But you just may find out and I hope for all of us it is not hard class. Peace out.

Dude, seriously, where did you come from? Have you read "RLA for Dummies?" Or are you just going by what the NPA is telling you?

Those guys don't even have a clue as to what's in a document that they wrote so how the he!! are they gonna know about what's in the RLA?

 

[Ace McCoy]

2. They're saying that wheel movement for pay is industry average (even though it's door closed and beacon on for Delta who our pay rates are compared to.

It's the same way at Northwest too. Doors closed and brakes released is considered an out time.