Airtran Pilots Want ALPA=WHY?

[Rez O. Lewshun]

twepilot... when lear70 got the smackdown... many of us manned up and helped a brother out.... did you?

 

[twepilot]

Does anyone have a shred of evidence that the company said or even alluded that if we passed TA whatever that the comapny would re-hire our two "hostages". No, I didn't think so.

Again, tell me what makes A person so important that gains and progress for a huge group is held up? Pretty arrogant if you ask me.

RV

 

[SkiFishFly]

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

You are wrong on this point. This is what the company would like you (and the rest of the pilots) to believe. It is not true. Have you spoken with RM and gotten his side of the story?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Does anyone have a shred of evidence that the company said or even alluded that if we passed TA whatever that the comapny would re-hire our two "hostages". No, I didn't think so.

Again, tell me what makes A person so important that gains and progress for a huge group is held up? Pretty arrogant if you ask me.

RV

WHAT GAINS????
The side LOAs since I have been here have been nothing but a loss for the pilot group!
That is why we now have memrat!

 

[labatt]

Rich,

You don't leave a brother behind! Peroid!! You never give the company an LOA, much less a new contract with two pilots on the street.

I just boggles my mind that some of our pilots could consider signing a new contract and leave two guys behind.

 

[Lear70]

No I didn't listen to the call I was working.

Too bad, you missed what a REAL union does for their pilots when one gets singled out.

I completely disagree with the mindset that all pilots must suffer if a few suffer. I'll even go a bit further and say that I believe its selfish for one to hold up gains that may be made for the overall group.

"Suffer" is not what we're talking about. We're talking about not giving the company relief somewhere when there's pilots being hosed by the company. If you disagree with that, then you disagree with every other major pilot union out there. The solving of grievances BEFORE any Agreement, including a T.A., is ratified, is standard operating procedure.

What you're talking about is called "throwing someone under the bus" for the gain of the pilot group and is EXACTLY why no one wants to stand up for themselves. Guys like you will disregard their sacrifices and keep right on going.

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

So you're a medical doctor now as well as a pilot and an attorney and judge to boot? Wow, I'm impressed.

Good thing the REAL doctors, attorneys, and judges don't agree with you, or I'd be seriously in trouble.

Does anyone have a shred of evidence that the company said or even alluded that if we passed TA whatever that the comapny would re-hire our two "hostages". No, I didn't think so.

Ummm, say again?

No one said anything of the kind. There hasn't BEEN a T.A. offer since I was terminated. Not sure what you're referring to here at all...?

Thanks again for the support of the vast majority of the AirTran pilots who understand what real "brotherhood" is. Look forward to sharing a frosty beverage with you guys when I'm back on the line. :beer:

 

[labatt]

Lear,

Thanks again for all the sacrifices you have made. Can't wait to see you and Don back on the line soon. If it were up to me you'd never have to buy a beer or dinner again.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Twepilot is truly clueless as to what it means to be a union member. This type of mentality is detrimental to the group.

 

[twepilot]

yawn.....

RV

 

[K-Mart]

Weren't you listening on the Southwest conference call? I asked the SWAPA president what THEY do when the company does something like this (very rare). His answer was:

"Everything. You make it public. You make it ugly. You do WHATEVER it takes, and let the chips fall where they may".

Sorry but that is so far from the truth it ain't even funny.

We had two recent terminations and the union is being sued by one of them for "NOT DOING THERE JOB TO DEFEND THE INDIVIDUAL".

The other individual was payed off to leave.

The SWAPA president is full of it.

 

[Lear70]

Really... do tell.

I know the girl sued, but thought her getting her job back negated the suit for the most part.

Hadn't heard about the other, better have been a BIG payoff to leave a career at SWA... Would be very interested in hearing more.

 

[Murphy]

I voted for ALPA today. You can put lipstick on the NPA, but it will always be the NPA.

 

[DonVerita]

Again, tell me what makes A person so important that gains and progress for a huge group is held up?

RV

In one word..."Unity".

 

[CopilotDoug]

I voted for ALPA today. You can put lipstick on the NPA, but it will always be the NPA.

Hell of a thing to say about your fellow pilots. Call yourself ALPA...hell, call yourself the Keebler Elves...it's going to be the same pilot group at the end of the day.

 

[K-Mart]

Really... do tell.

I know the girl sued, but thought her getting her job back negated the suit for the most part.

Hadn't heard about the other, better have been a BIG payoff to leave a career at SWA... Would be very interested in hearing more.

Check your PM's.

 

[Lear70]

Got it... interesting. Hadn't heard that side of the story before.

Thanks for the PM. Makes you understand WHY SWAPA and SWA work together...

 

[Just thinking]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that the pilot group is sick and tired of a lack of accountablity. ALPA will provide resources that we would never have with the NPA. I also understand that ALPA is looking out for ALPA first and the pilots of Airtran somewhere down the line. ALPA will provide an infrastructure to build a coherent operation for the MEC that must be complied with. If I get disgusted with the MEC I will call national to complain about the representation that I am getting from my MEC. This is a rebuilding stage for this pilot group. ALL trust has gone out the door. I do not trust the company, the NPA or ALPA. If you want to represent this pilot group you had better be putting their needs FIRST and not use this group as a ladder to your "dream" job in Herndon Va.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Ultimately what it comes down to is that the pilot group is sick and tired of a lack of accountablity. ALPA will provide resources that we would never have with the NPA. I also understand that ALPA is looking out for ALPA first and the pilots of Airtran somewhere down the line. ALPA will provide an infrastructure to build a coherent operation for the MEC that must be complied with. If I get disgusted with the MEC I will call national to complain about the representation that I am getting from my MEC. This is a rebuilding stage for this pilot group. ALL trust has gone out the door. I do not trust the company, the NPA or ALPA. If you want to represent this pilot group you had better be putting their needs FIRST and not use this group as a ladder to your "dream" job in Herndon Va.

Not a bad post, JT. You should probably consult with PCL128 about the line in BOLD

 

[scarlet]

Lear 70-

Is he receiving union money plus his current job?

I know what the company said happen. What does he say?

I have a real problem if we are paying people who lose their job and receive another job. Are we paying them guarantee. ?

ALPA? Will be the same old people running the union.

When you guys get tired of AT MGT. You will start to control the throttles of the company.

 

[Lear70]

Lear 70-

Is he receiving union money plus his current job?

I know what the company said happen. What does he say?

I have a real problem if we are paying people who lose their job and receive another job. Are we paying them guarantee. ?

ALPA? Will be the same old people running the union.

When you guys get tired of AT MGT. You will start to control the throttles of the company.

All of your questions are in the FPLA which you were elligible to vote on and SHOULD have voted on, preferably reading it before you voted.

FPL makes up for what pilots aren´t making elsewhere to 70 hours if they´re unemployed, 90 hours if they have another job.

Each month pay stubs are turned in. If the pay is more than 90 hours at their other job, nothing is paid. If the pay is less than 90 hours, a check is cut for the difference.

Example. $65 per hour * 90 hours is 5,850 per month.

Pilot makes $4,000 at other job. Union cuts check for $1,850 and that is added to the Loan balance. That money gets paid back. It´s a loan, not a gift.

Any other questions, contact Don S on the message board or Matt H in the NPA office, they can give you the specifics.

No checks have yet been cut.

 

[scarlet]

Thanks

 

[Clyde Frog]

you should know this.

 

[Lear70]

Pretty sure he does, he's just getting 2nd-hand info from Orlando as well and there's no telling what they're spinning these days, it seems to change every time they're proven wrong on something.

He was probably instructed to come on here and stir the pot with the other pilots and he didn't have the real facts so he looks like the guy that can't be bothered to find out the real story before he votes for something, but just votes the company line.

Brown-nosing for that check airman / management slot later on seems to be the general consensus for Scarlet.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah telling pilots to control the throttles and fly safe is MGT...

I DO NOt CARE WHAT YOU THINK Lear70..

I know I have worked since I was 14 and not put myself into situation of being fired, so whatever happened I am sure there was at least 30-40% chance of something going on. A company just does not come to one of the 10,000 employees and fire that one person. You are right I don't know the whole truth. You do!! I don't think the company is giving the hostages one minute of their time these days.

 

[Lear70]

Yeah telling pilots to control the throttles and fly safe is MGT...

I DO NOt CARE WHAT YOU THINK Lear70..

I know I have worked since I was 14 and not put myself into situation of being fired, so whatever happened I am sure there was at least 30-40% chance of something going on. A company just does not come to one of the 10,000 employees and fire that one person. You are right I don't know the whole truth. You do!! I don't think the company is giving the hostages one minute of their time these days.

You're right, neither did I, after working 22 years, 15 of those in aviation, at 7 different companies, until I got involved in negotiations with an ex-Eastern management group and probably was the most influential reason convincing enough people to vote NO on those T.A.'s that it made the difference between it passing or not, which has cost the company MILLIONS in pay concessions and the loss of the ability to dump the 717's for E-190/Q400's even FURTHER costing them money.

But I'm guessing you don't think that's enough reason for them to come after me...

You're right, I absolutely DO know the truth, and I have a clear conscience. I know that management knows the truth as well, but sleeps well because they really don't care, it's all just a big game for them to see how much they can get paid.

You'd be surprised how much of their time we take up these days... will again on April 30th, and will again soon after that. They have been and will continue to be up to their knecks in lawsuits for a long time to come, not only from me and Don, but from several other people who are gearing up to sue right now as well, since management doesn't want to do the right thing by their employees.

It's going to be an interesting summer,,, stay tuned.

 

[PRINCE AKEEM]

Looks like Company-Stooge Scarlet has reached an all-time new low by putting down one of the hostages. Go away wanker...

 

[njcapt]

Yeah telling pilots to control the throttles and fly safe is MGT...

I DO NOt CARE WHAT YOU THINK Lear70..

I know I have worked since I was 14 and not put myself into situation of being fired, so whatever happened I am sure there was at least 30-40% chance of something going on. A company just does not come to one of the 10,000 employees and fire that one person. You are right I don't know the whole truth. You do!! I don't think the company is giving the hostages one minute of their time these days.

I engaged my 24 hour rage filter when I first read your post. Time's up.

With this post, you went from pussified management sycophant to complete a$$hole. Lear stands for everything that is right about the collective bargaining process - accepting responsibility, working hard and doing what is right for the people he represents in spite of the political backlash. You are a pathetic, frightened waste of DNA. A review of your posts over the past couple of years reinforces this conclusion.

Your contention that Lear "must have done something wrong or the company wouldn't be going after him" is naive in the extreme. At AirTran, the people the company goes after tend to be the ones who pose the biggest threat to their jobs or the 'Big Lie'. Lear did his job as member of the TA review Committee, spoke the truth about the weakness of TA#1 and was punished by the company for it. What is most disgusting is that the previous NPA board bought in to the company's lie and punted instead of properly representing him. If it had been me in charge, not one single LOA or TA would have had a Association signature on it until he was back on the property.

Unfortunately, the company has had their way with weak-dick pilots, such as yourself, for so long it is going to take years of bitter confrontation to change their attitude and tactics in regard to the pilot group. In one sense you are right, that ALPA will not automatically make things better. Leaving the NPA behind does provide a fresh start and allows others like yourself to learn how to act like real Union members.

 

[Spud]

I engaged my 24 hour rage filter when I first read your post. Time's up.

With this post, you went from pussified management sycophant to complete a$$hole. Lear stands for everything that is right about the collective bargaining process - accepting responsibility, working hard and doing what is right for the people he represents in spite of the political backlash. You are a pathetic, frightened waste of DNA. A review of your posts over the past couple of years reinforces this conclusion.

Your contention that Lear "must have done something wrong or the company wouldn't be going after him" is naive in the extreme. At AirTran, the people the company goes after tend to be the ones who pose the biggest threat to their jobs or the 'Big Lie'. Lear did his job as member of the TA review Committee, spoke the truth about the weakness of TA#1 and was punished by the company for it. What is most disgusting is that the previous NPA board bought in to the company's lie and punted instead of properly representing him. If it had been me in charge, not one single LOA or TA would have had a Association signature on it until he was back on the property.

Unfortunately, the company has had their way with weak-dick pilots, such as yourself, for so long it is going to take years of bitter confrontation to change their attitude and tactics in regard to the pilot group. In one sense you are right, that ALPA will not automatically make things better. Leaving the NPA behind does provide a fresh start and allows others like yourself to learn how to act like real Union members.

Nicely done!!

 

[Ty Webb]

With this post, you went from pussified management sycophant to complete a$$hole.

Amen . . . It's amazing how many of these "battered spouse/weak sister" types we have to rehabilitate around here. Talk about a low self-esteem knuckle-dragger with a "kick me/lie to me" sign taped to his back.

Prediction: Lear will be hired back, with back-pay, an apology, and a settlement in lieu of a defamation suit.

Prediction number two: Scarlet will do something very, very stupid in an airplane, be fired, and beg the Union to defend his stupid @ss. Lear will by then be the FO Rep and will get him his job back.

Alas, poor Scarlet, not being tough enough mentally to cope with what Lear has gone through these past 18 months, will be so traumatized by the event that he will spend the rest of his days in an insane asylum . . . reduced to a mindless, masturbating moron.

TW

 

[scarlet]

Thanks for your concern:

I will be on the lake in the boat or jetski! Not sitting around complaining about my life and how everyone here just hates the company and their job. I have a suggestion= LEAVE if you are that unhappy!! You are not a child, you can control your happiness.

If I got fired and I hated the company like people hate Airtran. I ask WHY would you ever want to come back to the place you hate?