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Airtran Pilots Want ALPA=WHY?

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This is a blood sport. Delta's management comes to the MEC and says: "you cut us slack on X issue and we can put the hurt on AirTran, resulting in an expansion once they're on the ropes".

Given Delta's great love and respect for AirTran over the years, what do you think their MEC would do? Oh yeah, I forgot, the AT pilots will be "ALPA Brothers" by then.

There's no way they'd screw over their "brother pilots". I mean look how they got along with Eastern all those years... :rolleyes:

TC

Actually Delta and Eastern people did get along. Having grown up with a father at Eastern and just about everyone in my neighborhood working at Delta, Eastern or as a controller I had a front row seat to the whole Eastern thing. If you really think that the Delta pilots are going to take one for the team, you are delusional.
 
Why should either pilot group have to be "sacrificed" for the good of the other?

Isn't the entire POINT to build on each other's successes from a union standpoint, and let each carrier's management figure out how to best compete?

Or did I miss that part of Management 101 where you get to turn your employees on their neighbors?

I, for one, think we're better than this, and I have no reason to believe the Delta MEC is secretly colluding with ALPA National to undermine AirTran's pilots.

Fear mongering helps none of us...
 
He's most likely going to be the next FAA Administrator. He and Duane Woerth are the top two contenders. Both are former ALPA presidents. Gee, it sure would be nice to be a part of the organization that is cozy with the new FAA top dog.

Then thats even more ALARMING considering Babbitt said that alpa needs to find a way to get rid of the LCC's (paraphrased).

RV
 
This is a blood sport. Delta's management comes to the MEC and says: "you cut us slack on X issue and we can put the hurt on AirTran, resulting in an expansion once they're on the ropes".

Given Delta's great love and respect for AirTran over the years, what do you think their MEC would do? Oh yeah, I forgot, the AT pilots will be "ALPA Brothers" by then.

There's no way they'd screw over their "brother pilots". I mean look how they got along with Eastern all those years... :rolleyes:

TC

If that is what you believe and expect others to do as well.... then it shall be...

Most likely someone else told you to think this way... and here you are.....
 
If that is what you believe and expect others to do as well.... then it shall be...

Most likely someone else told you to think this way... and here you are.....

Rez, you're so altruistic. I like that in a union hack.

Nice try.

Lear70--I assume you got your job back. If so, I'm really happy. You of all people should know what is possible when management and greedy pilots are involved. Would ALPA have saved your job--or at least mitigated the personal pain while they fought it out? I hope so. That is one area on the local level they are good at.

Actually, I'm happy to see that there is still some optimism out there. Not a great grasp of the internecine political battles within ALPA but you'll figure it out...

Good luck AT guys.

TC
 
This is a blood sport. Delta's management comes to the MEC and says: "you cut us slack on X issue and we can put the hurt on AirTran, resulting in an expansion once they're on the ropes".

Given Delta's great love and respect for AirTran over the years, what do you think their MEC would do? Oh yeah, I forgot, the AT pilots will be "ALPA Brothers" by then.

There's no way they'd screw over their "brother pilots". I mean look how they got along with Eastern all those years... :rolleyes:

TC
couldn't this happen regardless of how AT is represented? How does ALPA, NPA or anyone prevent that.
 
Rez, you're so altruistic. I like that in a union hack.

Nice try.

Lear70--I assume you got your job back. If so, I'm really happy. You of all people should know what is possible when management and greedy pilots are involved. Would ALPA have saved your job--or at least mitigated the personal pain while they fought it out? I hope so. That is one area on the local level they are good at.

Actually, I'm happy to see that there is still some optimism out there. Not a great grasp of the internecine political battles within ALPA but you'll figure it out...

Good luck AT guys.

TC


Sounds like a change in attitude.... glad to hear it...
 
Lear70--I assume you got your job back.
Nope. Still a voting member of the NPA until it goes to arbitration, and I'm still fighting for my job back, but the NPA has been unable to make anything happen and unwilling to make it a top priority.

You of all people should know what is possible when management and greedy pilots are involved. Would ALPA have saved your job--or at least mitigated the personal pain while they fought it out? I hope so. That is one area on the local level they are good at.
Probably. There certainly is more that could have been done at the time but wasn't. Whether the NPA didn't have anyone at the helm at the time (we had just recalled Philpot and Surrapine) or whether the existing reps didn't want to fight it out at the time is a matter I'm not going to get into.

Actually, I'm happy to see that there is still some optimism out there. Not a great grasp of the internecine political battles within ALPA but you'll figure it out...
I'm well-aware of the internal battles that go on within ALPA, I posted a break-down on one of those pitfalls on another thread.

I still, however, refuse to believe that ALPA's underlying plan is to undermine AirTran pilots. Considering we'll be an ongoing revenue stream for them, that would be defeatist, to say the least,,,

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. Good luck to you as well.
 
the NPA has been unable to make anything happen and unwilling to make it a top priority.

How does any union MAKE the company do something?

How do you know its not one of their highest priorities?

Has the npa not followed procedure and protocol?

Those of us that will be supporting you want to know these answers.

RV
 
How does any union MAKE the company do something?

How do you know its not one of their highest priorities?
Weren't you listening on the Southwest conference call? I asked the SWAPA president what THEY do when the company does something like this (very rare). His answer was:

"Everything. You make it public. You make it ugly. You do WHATEVER it takes, and let the chips fall where they may".

In other words, you don't "play nice" with the company for over a year, afraid to "rock the boat" so that they'll throw the pilot group a bone. You take the fight TO the company, and if the company doesn't like it, then that's really too bad.

I've had this conversation with Mike on more than one occassion. Specifically, I've asked why we, unlike most other unions, are signing side-letters giving the company relief on ANYTHING while we have contract hostages on the street.

His answer: "I'm not holding up ANYTHING that benefits the pilot group for the concerns of two guys." That's wrong.

There should be NO side letters, NO T.A.'s, NO relief of ANY kind given to the company by the union until hostages are reinstated. That's STANDARD UNION OPERATING POLICY at EVERY major, unionized carrier in the business...

Except ours, of course.

Has the npa not followed procedure and protocol?
Have they followed procedure? Yes, the NPA has done what's required of them to keep them out of a DFR suit (barely). Nothing more. Unlike another pilot who was recently terminated and was IMMEDIATELY placed on FULL Flight Pay Loss until reinstated.

Protocol? As in "what is normally expected of a union"? No, just the minimum required by law. Reference example above.

Those of us that will be supporting you want to know these answers.

RV
Now you know. My thanks to you and all the other AirTran pilots for your support. My hope is that ALPA *WILL* make it a priority, and that Don and I will, at the VERY least, no longer be held up from grievance by the company and, at best, reinstated with full back-pay in the near future.
 
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Unlike another pilot who was recently terminated and was IMMEDIATELY placed on FULL Flight Pay Loss until reinstated.

Call your reps. I don't think you have all the facts on this case.
 
No I didn't listen to the call I was working.

I completely disagree with the mindset that all pilots must suffer if a few suffer. I'll even go a bit further and say that I believe its selfish for one to hold up gains that may be made for the overall group.

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV
 
No I didn't listen to the call I was working.

I completely disagree with the mindset that all pilots must suffer if a few suffer. I'll even go a bit further and say that I believe its selfish for one to hold up gains that may be made for the overall group.

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

Come on RV,

They took two hostages plain and simple. If it wasn't for Lear70, TA2 would have passed without a doubt. I think we would be in big trouble right now from a scope stand point.

As far as suffering goes, you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy what Lear70 has been thru in the last year. As far as any gains while our two brothers are on the street, hell no!! I can't believe we have given the company what we have recently. I know you are anti-ALPA, but I hope the hostage situation becomes the #1 priority as they take over. We as a union and pilot group should be ashamed of ourselves how we have handled this hostage situation.
 

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