Airtran Pilots Want ALPA=WHY?

[AA717driver]

If that is what you believe and expect others to do as well.... then it shall be...

Most likely someone else told you to think this way... and here you are.....

Rez, you're so altruistic. I like that in a union hack.

Nice try.

Lear70--I assume you got your job back. If so, I'm really happy. You of all people should know what is possible when management and greedy pilots are involved. Would ALPA have saved your job--or at least mitigated the personal pain while they fought it out? I hope so. That is one area on the local level they are good at.

Actually, I'm happy to see that there is still some optimism out there. Not a great grasp of the internecine political battles within ALPA but you'll figure it out...

Good luck AT guys.

TC

 

[dh82dvr]

This is a blood sport. Delta's management comes to the MEC and says: "you cut us slack on X issue and we can put the hurt on AirTran, resulting in an expansion once they're on the ropes".

Given Delta's great love and respect for AirTran over the years, what do you think their MEC would do? Oh yeah, I forgot, the AT pilots will be "ALPA Brothers" by then.

There's no way they'd screw over their "brother pilots". I mean look how they got along with Eastern all those years...

TC

couldn't this happen regardless of how AT is represented? How does ALPA, NPA or anyone prevent that.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez, you're so altruistic. I like that in a union hack.

Nice try.

Lear70--I assume you got your job back. If so, I'm really happy. You of all people should know what is possible when management and greedy pilots are involved. Would ALPA have saved your job--or at least mitigated the personal pain while they fought it out? I hope so. That is one area on the local level they are good at.

Actually, I'm happy to see that there is still some optimism out there. Not a great grasp of the internecine political battles within ALPA but you'll figure it out...

Good luck AT guys.

TC

Sounds like a change in attitude.... glad to hear it...

 

[Lear70]

Lear70--I assume you got your job back.

Nope. Still a voting member of the NPA until it goes to arbitration, and I'm still fighting for my job back, but the NPA has been unable to make anything happen and unwilling to make it a top priority.

You of all people should know what is possible when management and greedy pilots are involved. Would ALPA have saved your job--or at least mitigated the personal pain while they fought it out? I hope so. That is one area on the local level they are good at.

Probably. There certainly is more that could have been done at the time but wasn't. Whether the NPA didn't have anyone at the helm at the time (we had just recalled Philpot and Surrapine) or whether the existing reps didn't want to fight it out at the time is a matter I'm not going to get into.

Actually, I'm happy to see that there is still some optimism out there. Not a great grasp of the internecine political battles within ALPA but you'll figure it out...

I'm well-aware of the internal battles that go on within ALPA, I posted a break-down on one of those pitfalls on another thread.

I still, however, refuse to believe that ALPA's underlying plan is to undermine AirTran pilots. Considering we'll be an ongoing revenue stream for them, that would be defeatist, to say the least,,,

Thanks for the kind words, I appreciate it. Good luck to you as well.

 

[twepilot]

the NPA has been unable to make anything happen and unwilling to make it a top priority.

How does any union MAKE the company do something?

How do you know its not one of their highest priorities?

Has the npa not followed procedure and protocol?

Those of us that will be supporting you want to know these answers.

RV

 

[Lear70]

How does any union MAKE the company do something?

How do you know its not one of their highest priorities?

Weren't you listening on the Southwest conference call? I asked the SWAPA president what THEY do when the company does something like this (very rare). His answer was:

"Everything. You make it public. You make it ugly. You do WHATEVER it takes, and let the chips fall where they may".

In other words, you don't "play nice" with the company for over a year, afraid to "rock the boat" so that they'll throw the pilot group a bone. You take the fight TO the company, and if the company doesn't like it, then that's really too bad.

I've had this conversation with Mike on more than one occassion. Specifically, I've asked why we, unlike most other unions, are signing side-letters giving the company relief on ANYTHING while we have contract hostages on the street.

His answer: "I'm not holding up ANYTHING that benefits the pilot group for the concerns of two guys." That's wrong.

There should be NO side letters, NO T.A.'s, NO relief of ANY kind given to the company by the union until hostages are reinstated. That's STANDARD UNION OPERATING POLICY at EVERY major, unionized carrier in the business...

Except ours, of course.

Has the npa not followed procedure and protocol?

Have they followed procedure? Yes, the NPA has done what's required of them to keep them out of a DFR suit (barely). Nothing more. Unlike another pilot who was recently terminated and was IMMEDIATELY placed on FULL Flight Pay Loss until reinstated.

Protocol? As in "what is normally expected of a union"? No, just the minimum required by law. Reference example above.

Those of us that will be supporting you want to know these answers.

RV

Now you know. My thanks to you and all the other AirTran pilots for your support. My hope is that ALPA *WILL* make it a priority, and that Don and I will, at the VERY least, no longer be held up from grievance by the company and, at best, reinstated with full back-pay in the near future.

 

[PCL_128]

Unlike another pilot who was recently terminated and was IMMEDIATELY placed on FULL Flight Pay Loss until reinstated.

Call your reps. I don't think you have all the facts on this case.

 

[Lear70]

Call your reps. I don't think you have all the facts on this case.

Done.

 

[twepilot]

No I didn't listen to the call I was working.

I completely disagree with the mindset that all pilots must suffer if a few suffer. I'll even go a bit further and say that I believe its selfish for one to hold up gains that may be made for the overall group.

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

 

[labatt]

No I didn't listen to the call I was working.

I completely disagree with the mindset that all pilots must suffer if a few suffer. I'll even go a bit further and say that I believe its selfish for one to hold up gains that may be made for the overall group.

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

Come on RV,

They took two hostages plain and simple. If it wasn't for Lear70, TA2 would have passed without a doubt. I think we would be in big trouble right now from a scope stand point.

As far as suffering goes, you wouldn't wish on your worst enemy what Lear70 has been thru in the last year. As far as any gains while our two brothers are on the street, hell no!! I can't believe we have given the company what we have recently. I know you are anti-ALPA, but I hope the hostage situation becomes the #1 priority as they take over. We as a union and pilot group should be ashamed of ourselves how we have handled this hostage situation.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

twepilot... when lear70 got the smackdown... many of us manned up and helped a brother out.... did you?

 

[twepilot]

Does anyone have a shred of evidence that the company said or even alluded that if we passed TA whatever that the comapny would re-hire our two "hostages". No, I didn't think so.

Again, tell me what makes A person so important that gains and progress for a huge group is held up? Pretty arrogant if you ask me.

RV

 

[SkiFishFly]

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

You are wrong on this point. This is what the company would like you (and the rest of the pilots) to believe. It is not true. Have you spoken with RM and gotten his side of the story?

 

[SkiFishFly]

Does anyone have a shred of evidence that the company said or even alluded that if we passed TA whatever that the comapny would re-hire our two "hostages". No, I didn't think so.

Again, tell me what makes A person so important that gains and progress for a huge group is held up? Pretty arrogant if you ask me.

RV

WHAT GAINS????
The side LOAs since I have been here have been nothing but a loss for the pilot group!
That is why we now have memrat!

 

[labatt]

Rich,

You don't leave a brother behind! Peroid!! You never give the company an LOA, much less a new contract with two pilots on the street.

I just boggles my mind that some of our pilots could consider signing a new contract and leave two guys behind.

 

[Lear70]

No I didn't listen to the call I was working.

Too bad, you missed what a REAL union does for their pilots when one gets singled out.

I completely disagree with the mindset that all pilots must suffer if a few suffer. I'll even go a bit further and say that I believe its selfish for one to hold up gains that may be made for the overall group.

"Suffer" is not what we're talking about. We're talking about not giving the company relief somewhere when there's pilots being hosed by the company. If you disagree with that, then you disagree with every other major pilot union out there. The solving of grievances BEFORE any Agreement, including a T.A., is ratified, is standard operating procedure.

What you're talking about is called "throwing someone under the bus" for the gain of the pilot group and is EXACTLY why no one wants to stand up for themselves. Guys like you will disregard their sacrifices and keep right on going.

Sorry about your particular instance, but technically you were caught pseudo-defrauding the company of sick time. You might not like hearing that but as I see it, that is what happened, technically.

RV

So you're a medical doctor now as well as a pilot and an attorney and judge to boot? Wow, I'm impressed.

Good thing the REAL doctors, attorneys, and judges don't agree with you, or I'd be seriously in trouble.

Does anyone have a shred of evidence that the company said or even alluded that if we passed TA whatever that the comapny would re-hire our two "hostages". No, I didn't think so.

Ummm, say again?

No one said anything of the kind. There hasn't BEEN a T.A. offer since I was terminated. Not sure what you're referring to here at all...?

Thanks again for the support of the vast majority of the AirTran pilots who understand what real "brotherhood" is. Look forward to sharing a frosty beverage with you guys when I'm back on the line. :beer:

 

[labatt]

Lear,

Thanks again for all the sacrifices you have made. Can't wait to see you and Don back on the line soon. If it were up to me you'd never have to buy a beer or dinner again.

 

[Clyde Frog]

Twepilot is truly clueless as to what it means to be a union member. This type of mentality is detrimental to the group.

 

[twepilot]

yawn.....

RV

 

[K-Mart]

Weren't you listening on the Southwest conference call? I asked the SWAPA president what THEY do when the company does something like this (very rare). His answer was:

"Everything. You make it public. You make it ugly. You do WHATEVER it takes, and let the chips fall where they may".

Sorry but that is so far from the truth it ain't even funny.

We had two recent terminations and the union is being sued by one of them for "NOT DOING THERE JOB TO DEFEND THE INDIVIDUAL".

The other individual was payed off to leave.

The SWAPA president is full of it.