Airtran MEC Update

[RLAblows]

Wasn't meant to be a shot at the SWA pilots as a whole just the ones who are treating AirTran pilots like second class citizens. I have nothing but respect for SWA and their accomplishments. If only all airlines would mimic SWA.

 

[texman]

Rla, brother you talk about growth that AT would have. You need to read your company financial reports.

 

[GuppyWN]

The General also points out that a JOINT contract should have been negotiated, and AT union shouldn't be excluded from the negotiation process.

JCBA or Joint Contract is only with an ALPA/ALPA transaction.

I have hopes that Tuesday will be the beginning of a kinder, gentler negotiations and pave the way to a smooth transition.

Have a great Sunday my future Airtran friends!

Gup

 

[RLAblows]

maybe I should take a better look, but I can tell you for a fact we were hiring and upgrading during the time of the merger announcement and ongoing class dates were being announced through the next year.

 

[737tanker]

SWAPA doesn't want to do the JOINT contract first. After that is complete, every one knows what their expectations are for pay--because new rates are infront of them.

The AirTrans pilots already know what their new rates will be because all they have to do is look at the current SWAPA contract. However GK has already stated that the AirTran employees will operate under their current as long as AirTran and SWA operate separately then when combined all employee will be under the respective SWA contract. Another thing to remember is that SWAPA can't speak for SWA, and SWA can't talk to AirTran employees until the AirTran shareholders and the Fed government approve the acquisition.
Quick question for General Lee how did that relative seniority work out when Delta bought parts of PanAm? I remember now there was no relative seniority it was done with no regard to seniority as only the Airbus, and some 727, pilots were allowed to go.

 

[General Lee]

You are right. He just purposely tries to flame bait.....period.

It is obvious to all of us his agenda. Delta....Atlanta.....SWA.....

Come on. The more he pits us against ourselves the more he feels like he is protecting his own turf. He use to slam both Airtran and SWA. Now that Airtran will be SWA he spends precious minutes of his life trying to get us to hate each other. And it appears to be working for some.

Unfortunately the only winner on this board may become the general himself. And his neurotic need to control. Its not a hobby with 16000 posts. Its a sickness.

He is hurting the Airtran pilots and I believe that is his ultimate objective.

No ones opinion on this board is going to change the outcome. Only the way we feel about each other. And that is very dangerous.

I am just trying to point out the OBVIOUS, that there is something strange going on here. Of course the SWA guys don't want me to bring anything up, they want what they want. Instead, they try to blame ME. Why? I want everyone to get a FAIR deal, something the SWA guys don't think should happen to anyone else but them. They can't see the VALUE in the merger/aquisition of Airtran. Guys like Red equate it with Delta buying Comair, even though Airtran and SWA have the same type planes. That is just NUTS. (thanks HERB, he'd be going NUTS himself if he knew what was going on here)

The Airtran guys need to push ALPA to get in there with SWAPA and SWA management, and be a part of the process. IF they are boxed out, then that should mean that there will be no cooperation and that something nefarious is going on, and from that point I would request immediate arbitration, and get help from Congress (use your lobbysts) to get hearings in front of the Aviation Sub-Committee to find out what really is going on here. Make Gary Kelly testify under oath. You Airtran guys have to get a movement going, and try to get yourself into the negotiations. Talk about UNITY. I don't see much with SWAPA.

Am I trying to create a riot here? NO. I think each group should be treated fairly, with a nuetral deciding what is fair. What is wrong with that, unless you don't want something that is fair? That is wrong.

And of course I still haven't gotten a response from CHASE. That is telling. Can he tell me why SWAPA wouldn't allow AT ALPA to be a part of the management negotiations? Sounds almost USAPA-like..


And could you tell me again why I am hurting Airtran pilots? What? I am trying to point out the obvious. And as far as DL and ATL and SWA, who cares? Someone will compete against DL in ATL, either SWA or Airtran. How can I derail a merger?? You are giving me God-like powers, and for that, I THANK YOU. Wow.

You are right, nobody on this board will be able to change the outcome, unless you figure out what is really happening, and that AT ALPA Memo is really telling. That type of stuff needs to come out, so the rest of us who have gone through a merger and SLI can read it and warn you guys what may or may not happen. What is wrong with knowledge? The SWA guys on here don't want you to know until after it is over. It almost seems like they are pro-Mubarak thugs in the streets of Cairo. Let FREEDOM RING!!!! Have a great day.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[slaquer5]

I am just trying to point out the OBVIOUS, that there is something strange going on here. Of course the SWA guys don't want me to bring anything up, they want what they want. Instead, they try to blame ME. Why? I want everyone to get a FAIR deal,
Bye Bye--General Lee

O that's rich, a SWA hater just wanting all to be happy. I can just imagine what some SWA pilot did to your wife.

 

[livintheredream]

I know that FI is the Red Headed stepchild of the internet but some of you SW guys need to shut your CEO up ASAP. He is not helping your cause to make this a USAIR. We (AT) have been treated like crap for the past 6 years and are very happy to join forces but if it gets hostile its nothing new to us. We will come out fighting. Thats all we know. Thats not what anyone wants so lets keep it to just chest thumping.

By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY

Updated: 02/27/2011 10:59am

Southwest CEO Gary Kelly says it's "absolutely imperative" for his carrier to complete its planned merger with AirTran, according to Dow Jones Newswires

The union would join the nation's two largest low-cost carriers, with Kelly arguing the deal has become increasingly important against the back-drop of steadily rising fuel costs.

"The biggest impediment to growth in the airline industry is the high cost of jet fuel," Kelly is quoted as saying by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

From GK
Absent the merger, both carriers will be constrained and even hard-pressed to maintain current capacity levels. This transaction is the single best initiative we have to preserve jobs and maintain service to communities. It gives us the best chance to grow jobs and add new service to our communities.

 

[XRMEFLYER]

Doesn't Bill Nelson purport to be a SWA pilot? I just figured someone who uses the words "righful place" twice in the same sentence has some idea of what that is and might share it with the rest of us. I guess not.

As for you Bake, the answer to your question "what's it to me?" should be pretty obvious.

 

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I wouldn't be too crabby about this. The DAL MEC did virtually the identical thing with LOA19 during the NWA/DAL merger. Heck, that had payrates for airplanes they didn't even fly.

Nu

 

[Bake]

Doesn't Bill Nelson purport to be a SWA pilot? I just figured someone who uses the words "righful place" twice in the same sentence has some idea of what that is and might share it with the rest of us. I guess not.

As for you Bake, the answer to your question "what's it to me?" should be pretty obvious.

Well, share it with the rest of us. Lay it out there so we don't have to read between the lines.

 

[Bwipilot]

So the basic fact is that ALPA is upset because it didn't get to help negotiate the transition agreement between SWA and SWAPA. I don't see why they'd be party to a negotiation between SWA and SWAPA. Everyone keeps referencing the NWA/DAL merger--but ALPA was representing both sets of pilots so it made sense then.

I'm sure that ALPA will negotiate to get items in it's transition agreement with Airtran that won't benefit SWA or SWAPA--but I'll doubt if you will hear a wimper from SWAPA on not being included in those negotiations. If SWAPA does, you'll have my mea culpa. Until then, everything from ALPA is just sour grapes.

 

[On Your Six]

Heyas,

I wouldn't be too crabby about this. The DAL MEC did virtually the identical thing with LOA19 during the NWA/DAL merger. Heck, that had payrates for airplanes they didn't even fly.

Nu

Yes, but everyone was included at the table, right? When the joint contract was completed, didn't everyone have a say? That is what I have heard.


OYS

 

[Bob Dylan]

I know that FI is the Red Headed stepchild of the internet but some of you SW guys need to shut your CEO up ASAP. He is not helping your cause to make this a USAIR. We (AT) have been treated like crap for the past 6 years and are very happy to join forces but if it gets hostile its nothing new to us. We will come out fighting. Thats all we know. Thats not what anyone wants so lets keep it to just chest thumping.

By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY

Updated: 02/27/2011 10:59am

Southwest CEO Gary Kelly says it's "absolutely imperative" for his carrier to complete its planned merger with AirTran, according to Dow Jones Newswires

The union would join the nation's two largest low-cost carriers, with Kelly arguing the deal has become increasingly important against the back-drop of steadily rising fuel costs.

"The biggest impediment to growth in the airline industry is the high cost of jet fuel," Kelly is quoted as saying by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

He's most likely saying that to get all the regulatory approvals and to help defend against the silly shareholder lawsuits.

I think he really just wants the routes and gates.

Typical CEO bs.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

OnYourSix, you really do need to get a LIFE!

 

[On Your Six]

OnYourSix, you really do need to get a LIFE!

Just stating the facts. Too bad you can't handle the truth...



OYS

 

[DonVerita]

Thanks for making my point. It's worth over one million dollars in pilot pay differences between AAI and SW. I would say that's a pretty big difference in career expectations would you?

I'm not saying AAI wouldn't have strived to achieve those gains, but when they do it overnight with another groups contract then that qualifies as a windfall for one group. How am I wrong? The pay differences alone are 60-80%.

Red...where are you getting those outlandish 60-80% pay difference figures and applying them to the whole pilot group?

Let's take a look at a 9yr. Capt. as an example. The hourly rates are public knowledge on airlinepilotcentral.com

AT Capt. = 153/hr.
SW Capt. = 203/hr.

Doing the math, it comes out to a 32.7% difference which is not even in the ballpark of the 60-80% difference that you claim.

A lot more than just pay goes into determining career expectations. As GL has correctly stated, an arbitrator is going to look at the whole package.

 

[learherkjay]

I don't understand what the point of this thread is. Why don't both sides just shut up and let the unions handle it. Useless finger pointing of anonymous posters from both sides don't create much other than high blood pressures and hurt feelings.

 

[Widow's Son]

I don't understand what the point of this thread is. Why don't both sides just shut up and let the unions handle it. Useless finger pointing of anonymous posters from both sides don't create much other than high blood pressures and hurt feelings.

What we've got is a handful of loudmouths on both sides (along with an uninvited third party stirring excrement for amusement), saying the exact same things their counterparts on the other side would be saying if their respective roles were reversed. The radical fringe on the SWA side has a couple of heros and flag bearers who were former Morris guys who actually sued us over that deal so I guess there is always hope for time healing wounds.

Nevertheless, the majority on both sides are reasonable and fair minded people who just want to enjoy a secure career and retire comfortably.

The culture of our industry is more important than any particular airline. There is nothing wrong with fair and equitable even with an inherently broad definition. For the record I don't think either relative or staple are fair and equitable, but I am just one vote that may or may not get to be cast.

There is a lot to be said for treating others as you would expect them to treat you, otherwise, Grandma wouldn't have preached it so often.

I actually hope this thing goes to arbitration because then there will be a third party to despise and blame. In the meantime, there is no reason to expend all this cyberbation getting worked up over hypothetical stuff that is simply out of our control. The future is big enough and bright enough for all of us to enjoy.