Airtran MEC Update

[NuGuy]

Heyas,

I wouldn't be too crabby about this. The DAL MEC did virtually the identical thing with LOA19 during the NWA/DAL merger. Heck, that had payrates for airplanes they didn't even fly.

Nu

 

[Bake]

Doesn't Bill Nelson purport to be a SWA pilot? I just figured someone who uses the words "righful place" twice in the same sentence has some idea of what that is and might share it with the rest of us. I guess not.

As for you Bake, the answer to your question "what's it to me?" should be pretty obvious.

Well, share it with the rest of us. Lay it out there so we don't have to read between the lines.

 

[Bwipilot]

So the basic fact is that ALPA is upset because it didn't get to help negotiate the transition agreement between SWA and SWAPA. I don't see why they'd be party to a negotiation between SWA and SWAPA. Everyone keeps referencing the NWA/DAL merger--but ALPA was representing both sets of pilots so it made sense then.

I'm sure that ALPA will negotiate to get items in it's transition agreement with Airtran that won't benefit SWA or SWAPA--but I'll doubt if you will hear a wimper from SWAPA on not being included in those negotiations. If SWAPA does, you'll have my mea culpa. Until then, everything from ALPA is just sour grapes.

 

[On Your Six]

Heyas,

I wouldn't be too crabby about this. The DAL MEC did virtually the identical thing with LOA19 during the NWA/DAL merger. Heck, that had payrates for airplanes they didn't even fly.

Nu

Yes, but everyone was included at the table, right? When the joint contract was completed, didn't everyone have a say? That is what I have heard.


OYS

 

[Bob Dylan]

I know that FI is the Red Headed stepchild of the internet but some of you SW guys need to shut your CEO up ASAP. He is not helping your cause to make this a USAIR. We (AT) have been treated like crap for the past 6 years and are very happy to join forces but if it gets hostile its nothing new to us. We will come out fighting. Thats all we know. Thats not what anyone wants so lets keep it to just chest thumping.

By Ben Mutzabaugh, USA TODAY

Updated: 02/27/2011 10:59am

Southwest CEO Gary Kelly says it's "absolutely imperative" for his carrier to complete its planned merger with AirTran, according to Dow Jones Newswires

The union would join the nation's two largest low-cost carriers, with Kelly arguing the deal has become increasingly important against the back-drop of steadily rising fuel costs.

"The biggest impediment to growth in the airline industry is the high cost of jet fuel," Kelly is quoted as saying by the Milwaukee Journal Sentinel.

He's most likely saying that to get all the regulatory approvals and to help defend against the silly shareholder lawsuits.

I think he really just wants the routes and gates.

Typical CEO bs.

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

OnYourSix, you really do need to get a LIFE!

 

[On Your Six]

OnYourSix, you really do need to get a LIFE!

Just stating the facts. Too bad you can't handle the truth...



OYS

 

[DonVerita]

Thanks for making my point. It's worth over one million dollars in pilot pay differences between AAI and SW. I would say that's a pretty big difference in career expectations would you?

I'm not saying AAI wouldn't have strived to achieve those gains, but when they do it overnight with another groups contract then that qualifies as a windfall for one group. How am I wrong? The pay differences alone are 60-80%.

Red...where are you getting those outlandish 60-80% pay difference figures and applying them to the whole pilot group?

Let's take a look at a 9yr. Capt. as an example. The hourly rates are public knowledge on airlinepilotcentral.com

AT Capt. = 153/hr.
SW Capt. = 203/hr.

Doing the math, it comes out to a 32.7% difference which is not even in the ballpark of the 60-80% difference that you claim.

A lot more than just pay goes into determining career expectations. As GL has correctly stated, an arbitrator is going to look at the whole package.

 

[learherkjay]

I don't understand what the point of this thread is. Why don't both sides just shut up and let the unions handle it. Useless finger pointing of anonymous posters from both sides don't create much other than high blood pressures and hurt feelings.

 

[Widow's Son]

I don't understand what the point of this thread is. Why don't both sides just shut up and let the unions handle it. Useless finger pointing of anonymous posters from both sides don't create much other than high blood pressures and hurt feelings.

What we've got is a handful of loudmouths on both sides (along with an uninvited third party stirring excrement for amusement), saying the exact same things their counterparts on the other side would be saying if their respective roles were reversed. The radical fringe on the SWA side has a couple of heros and flag bearers who were former Morris guys who actually sued us over that deal so I guess there is always hope for time healing wounds.

Nevertheless, the majority on both sides are reasonable and fair minded people who just want to enjoy a secure career and retire comfortably.

The culture of our industry is more important than any particular airline. There is nothing wrong with fair and equitable even with an inherently broad definition. For the record I don't think either relative or staple are fair and equitable, but I am just one vote that may or may not get to be cast.

There is a lot to be said for treating others as you would expect them to treat you, otherwise, Grandma wouldn't have preached it so often.

I actually hope this thing goes to arbitration because then there will be a third party to despise and blame. In the meantime, there is no reason to expend all this cyberbation getting worked up over hypothetical stuff that is simply out of our control. The future is big enough and bright enough for all of us to enjoy.

 

[Ualexpress]

What we've got is a handful of loudmouths on both sides (along with an uninvited third party stirring excrement for amusement), saying the exact same things their counterparts on the other side would be saying if their respective roles were reversed. The radical fringe on the SWA side has a couple of heros and flag bearers who were former Morris guys who actually sued us over that deal so I guess there is always hope for time healing wounds.

Nevertheless, the majority on both sides are reasonable and fair minded people who just want to enjoy a secure career and retire comfortably.

The culture of our industry is more important than any particular airline. There is nothing wrong with fair and equitable even with an inherently broad definition. For the record I don't think either relative or staple are fair and equitable, but I am just one vote that may or may not get to be cast.

There is a lot to be said for treating others as you would expect them to treat you, otherwise, Grandma wouldn't have preached it so often.

I actually hope this thing goes to arbitration because then there will be a third party to despise and blame. In the meantime, there is no reason to expend all this cyberbation getting worked up over hypothetical stuff that is simply out of our control. The future is big enough and bright enough for all of us to enjoy.

Good Post Widow!! Spot on.

 

[bladeusa]

Plus 1

 

[canyonblue]

This "Message Board" has really turned into more of an entertainment site the last 8 years. But even with the "entertainment" aspect, I still can't understand why these Delta pilots always end up on Southwest threads. I posted awhile back on the "stalking" activity of certain Delta pilots, but for God's sake man, this is really creepy.

Listen, guys, there must be something else you can get involved in (like maybe your children or spouses lives) besides a bitchfest between two airlines that may combine. You guys remind me of people that always butt into other peoples conversations, and have no clue how obnoxious their behavior is. I know it's a Free Country, but it's a conversation between a Southwest pilot and an AirTran pilot and unless you fall into one of those groups, get the Hell out of our conversation.

WTF

I was here on this board before the General Lee days, too bad most of you missed it. It was actually a great place to get information back then.

 

[On Your Six]

This "Message Board" has really turned into more of an entertainment site the last 8 years. But even with the "entertainment" aspect, I still can't understand why these Delta pilots always end up on Southwest threads. I posted awhile back on the "stalking" activity of certain Delta pilots, but for God's sake man, this is really creepy.

Listen, guys, there must be something else you can get involved in (like maybe your children or spouses lives) besides a bitchfest between two airlines that may combine. You guys remind me of people that always butt into other peoples conversations, and have no clue how obnoxious their behavior is. I know it's a Free Country, but it's a conversation between a Southwest pilot and an AirTran pilot and unless you fall into one of those groups, get the Hell out of our conversation
WTF

I was here on this board before the General Lee days, too bad most of you missed it. It was actually a great place to get information back then.

That is called BORING. Gen Lee makes it entertaining. And I love how you tell people to go do other things, yet you yourself are on here now. Hypocrite!



OYS

 

[OurMoney1]

I assure you this, if ALPA continues with its rants and rhetoric, Gary Kelly will turn this into a slice and dice acquisition that leaves a smoking hole in Atlanta. SWA doesn't repsond to this type of communication well. I suspect Gary and friends are closely looking at the language of Guadeloupe Holdings right now and patting themselves on the back. ALPA is once again showing their sophmoric culture. Not a good situation for the pilots of Airtran.

 

[SWA/FO]

I assure you this, if ALPA continues with its rants and rhetoric, Gary Kelly will turn this into a slice and dice acquisition that leaves a smoking hole in Atlanta. SWA doesn't repsond to this type of communication well. I suspect Gary and friends are closely looking at the language of Guadeloupe Holdings right now and patting themselves on the back. ALPA is once again showing their sophmoric culture. Not a good situation for the pilots of Airtran.

Exactly.... What I was thinking.

 

[RLAblows]

Exactly.... What I was thinking.

What rants are you guys referring to?

 

[redflyer65]

I assure you this, if ALPA continues with its rants and rhetoric, Gary Kelly will turn this into a slice and dice acquisition that leaves a smoking hole in Atlanta. SWA doesn't repsond to this type of communication well. I suspect Gary and friends are closely looking at the language of Guadeloupe Holdings right now and patting themselves on the back. ALPA is once again showing their sophmoric culture. Not a good situation for the pilots of Airtran.

We have a winner!

 

[Kharma Police]

We have a winner!

Congratulations to him! Now, what prize does the winner get?

 

[orangebellyav8r]

a seat above you

 

[redflyer65]

Red...where are you getting those outlandish 60-80% pay difference figures and applying them to the whole pilot group?

Let's take a look at a 9yr. Capt. as an example. The hourly rates are public knowledge on airlinepilotcentral.com

AT Capt. = 153/hr.
SW Capt. = 203/hr.

Doing the math, it comes out to a 32.7% difference which is not even in the ballpark of the 60-80% difference that you claim.

A lot more than just pay goes into determining career expectations. As GL has correctly stated, an arbitrator is going to look at the whole package.

Don,

We went over this in a previous thread dated 12/12/2010. You asked about comparing 9yr FO rates at both airlines. Not sure why you picked that but I responded with this....




Wow, not sure where to start with this one but I'll do the math.

First off, you have to use your original payscale that was used as a snapshot in Sept. I really like how you guys want to hold up the new one and say 'it isn't that much different now'.

But I'll do the public math anyway..

9yr AAI FO - 75/hr x 70 = 5250/month (original payscale)
9yr AAI FO - 97/hr x 70 = 6790/month (new payscale)

9yr SW FO - 124 trips for pay, mulitpied by a conservative rate of 1.15 (1.18 is closer to reality), equals 142.

142/hr x 70 = 9940/month that's a 90 percent increase off your original pay, or 46 percent increase off your new payrates. (which won't be used)

So instead of 50-80 percent, I should have use 46-90 percent. My bad.

At SW, that same 9yr FO can easy fly 110-115 trips a month making 13,600 for the month. That is the windfall no matter how you add the numbers.



I'll run any other numbers side by side if you need me to.

RF

 

[uba757]

At SW, that same 9yr FO can easy fly 110-115 trips a month making 13,600 for the month. That is the windfall no matter how you add the numbers.

Man, thats almost 6 legs a day for 20 days out of the month (I assume that 10 days is the average amount of days off for a SW pilot in a month) WOW!

 

[ASADFW7]

SWA is interview window is opening again.

 

[waveflyer]

At SW, that same 9yr FO can easy fly 110-115 trips a month making 13,600 for the month. That is the windfall no matter how you add the numbers.

Man, thats almost 6 legs a day for 20 days out of the month (I assume that 10 days is the average amount of days off for a SW pilot in a month) WOW!

And you would assume stupidly.


No really- you would.

My Feb: 115TFP - 14 days off in a short month- zero premium time. 1 5 leg day - 4 4 leg days- 6 3 leg days- 2 2 leg days and 1 1 leg day-

Never been scheduled in a less fatiguing way in my 20 year career.
And have never been treated better by a company. The lack of stress here is worth years to your life- I leave 9/10 trips smiling and happy
Don't get too riled up here- both sides are well represented- we'll be alright if no one takes the 1%ers here too seriously

 

[Lonestar]

Man, thats almost 6 legs a day for 20 days out of the month (I assume that 10 days is the average amount of days off for a SW pilot in a month) WOW!

Just a little better than 10 days off a month...

-Last calendar year (6-7 yr FO) I flew 205 days.
-That's an average of 17 days OFF a month.
-I also averaged just UNDER 4 legs per day.
-Top it off with an average of 109 TFP per month.

$13 grand a month averaging 17 days off...

*I had the ENTIRE month of August off with two weeks of vacation so that did skew the average days off a bit.*

 

[GuppyWN]

*I had the ENTIRE month of August off with two weeks of vacation so that did skew the average days off a bit.*

POW POW! :laugh:

I took over a month off in one pop last year too.......... with two weeks vacation. This year I'm taking about 7 weeks off in a row with 3 weeks vacation.

Sucks doesn't it?
Gup

 

[canyonblue]

And I love how you tell people to go do other things..................

OYS

That's because I am SENIOR to you here, not be a good little boy and find a thread about Delta hiring or something else exciting. :laugh:

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

I assure you this, if ALPA continues with its rants and rhetoric, Gary Kelly will turn this into a slice and dice acquisition that leaves a smoking hole in Atlanta. SWA doesn't repsond to this type of communication well. I suspect Gary and friends are closely looking at the language of Guadeloupe Holdings right now and patting themselves on the back. ALPA is once again showing their sophmoric culture. Not a good situation for the pilots of Airtran.

Are you kidding me? If the angry 13% would have written a response, THAT would have gotten GK's attention. These "rants and rhetoric" are just part of the game SWAPA has decided to enter into. There will be a lot more over the coming months. Buckle in, it'll be a long bumpy ride and neither side would expect anything less in making the case for their respective sides.

 

[737tanker]

Man, thats almost 6 legs a day for 20 days out of the month (I assume that 10 days is the average amount of days off for a SW pilot in a month) WOW!

You would assume wrong. For March I'm scheduled for 111 TFP with 16 days off. Week 1 is a 4 day with 13 legs; Week 2 is a 3 day with 9 legs; Week 3 is a 4 day with 12 legs; Week 4 is a 2 day with 7 legs; and Week 5 is a 2 day with 6 legs.

 

[Widow's Son]

Gup,

Our industry has a long history of professionalism, respect, and comraderie.
Yes things are good for us right now, (aside from your incessant whining and complaining on internal forums), but we remain one bad spindle of being on the other side of acquisition. There is a fine line between being in a position of strength and being a dick.

I agree with the current pprune swell that your body of work on this forum of late is an embarrassment.