Airtran MEC Update

[Kharma Police]

Deleted

 

[redflyer65]

(all had mostly relative seniority throughout each award)



Bye Bye---General Lee

Apples to oranges General.

1-DL/NW was a more of a merger of equals. Career expectations were very, very similiar.

2- SW is acquiring a smaller carrier. Along with a massive difference in career expectation between the two pilot groups.

Big, big difference. The arbitor (if it ever gets there) will see that plainly.

 

[MCDU]

Relative seniority always rewards the younger group with less time. The younger group get their DOH and the other group with more time gets slotted in. With relative, you will always have one group that loves the outcome. It is a win win for one group.

Delta, AWA, Republic and now Airtran are all big fans on Relative. I wonder why. Being placed ahead of someone with less time has to be a windfall.
Hell will freeze over if any Airtran pilots get put ahead of any SWA pilots with a DOH less then the SWA pilot. Relative seniority is a land grab by a younger group with less time.

To bad pilots are the only work group that abandoned the golden standard of DOH. We would not be infighting and could concentrate on getting better contracts instead of trying to figure out who deserves more. There is a reason why all other Unions support DOH.

I support DOH for Airtran pilots and certain restrictions to protect the capt seats and positions they brought.

M

 

[XRMEFLYER]

GL,
This isn't a merger like dl/nw or us/aw it is an acquisition by SWA of a much smaller carrier.

You talk about unity and not having thousands of pissed off employees after it is done. What is better, 1700 (or more likely 300-400) pissed off former AT pilots or 6000 severely pissed SWA pilots?

Gary Kelly isn't going to throw away 40 years of good business nor is SWAPA going to allow a few hundred AT pilots who want more than they deserve screw it up.

We will welcome the AirTran pilots with open arms when they come into our family in their rightful place.

The sooner they see where that rightful place is the sooner they will be welcomed. If they never see it, well....

What exactly is our "rightful place" Bill?

 

[Bake]

What exactly is our "rightful place" Bill?

Just curious, What is it to you XRMEFLYER? The thing is I believe there are about 7700 different answers to that question and then there are an exponential amount of answers that we could all live with. Right now it is all about each union protecting its members and having leverage and applying that leverage in a way that does the least damage to us ALL.

Respectfully

 

[DonVerita]

Apples to oranges General.

1-DL/NW was a more of a merger of equals. Career expectations were very, very similiar.

2- SW is acquiring a smaller carrier. Along with a massive difference in career expectation between the two pilot groups.

Big, big difference. The arbitor (if it ever gets there) will see that plainly.

Redflyer...the majority of your posts appear to be ones of condescension.

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is. You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot.

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

 

[General Lee]

Apples to oranges General.

1-DL/NW was a more of a merger of equals. Career expectations were very, very similiar.

2- SW is acquiring a smaller carrier. Along with a massive difference in career expectation between the two pilot groups.

Big, big difference. The arbitor (if it ever gets there) will see that plainly.

How about USAir and AWA? Both weren't doing great financially (AWA a bit better than USAir at the time), and SWA and AT are currently profitable LCCs. USAir was a lot larger than AWA, yet after looking at the differences (USAir did INTL flying with A330s--so they got the top 500 spots), it was mostly relative after the top 500.

You can't escape it. SWAPA's current treatment of AT ALPA will not result in a "friendly" agreement, especially if SWAPA excludes them from anything with your management. That aint a "joint" contract. So, to spite you, they may go for the arbitration route, and that may give you something to be upset about. Excluding them might be the dumbest thing SWAPA has done, SO FAR.......

And SWA was the aquiring carrier, but so far that hasn't meant much to any recent arbitration. So what? AT could have aquired SWA, even though it would have cost them a heck of a lot more. Career expectations? You are one more 9-11 away from the unemployment line. You expect to be at a profitable LCC. So do they. It won't make a big difference. You are trying to manage their expectations, and really, you can't. You will be rolling the dice with any arbitrator, and he will see value in AT's ATL hub, extra LGA slots, and new DCA slots. You are naive to think your arbitration will be different than the others. It won't, and your current handling of the AT ALPA group will ensure it goes there.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[jonjuan]

You are trying to manage their expectations, and really, you can't.

And that right there pretty much sums up the swalpa point of view.

 

[redflyer65]

achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

Thanks for making my point. It's worth over one million dollars in pilot pay differences between AAI and SW. I would say that's a pretty big difference in career expectations would you?

I'm not saying AAI wouldn't have strived to achieve those gains, but when they do it overnight with another groups contract then that qualifies as a windfall for one group. How am I wrong? The pay differences alone are 60-80%.

Not trying to be condending at all, just stating the facts as they are.

 

[General Lee]

Redflyer...the majority of your posts appear to be ones of condescension.

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is. You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot.

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

But Don, Red thinks the SWA aquisition of AT is more like DL aquiring COMAIR......?????? That is what he wrote anyway....crazy.

Don't let him manage your expectations. Arbitration will fix everything.



Bye Bye--General Lee