Airtran MEC Update

[RLAblows]

Glad to hear it GearUp. Where are the rest of your like minded brothers? I look forward to drinking beers with you guys on the overnights if this thing ever works out. Good luck.

I think you'll find that almost all AirTran pilots are behind this deal, and looking forward to the future.

 

[sfomarc]

Redflyer...the majority of your posts appear to be ones of condescension.

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is. You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot.

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

I agree with everything you said. I wish that you could convince Gary Kelly to back away from this deal. We could grow and you could remain a captain at Airtran.

 

[redflyer65]

Redflyer...the majority of your posts appear to be ones of condescension.

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is. You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot.

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

Don,

I didn't mean to insuate that Airtran was not a major airline, just a smaller one. Basically 5900 Southwest pilots to around 1700 at Airtran. And Southwest pilots aren't any better than anyone else. They have been very successful at working with the company to get an awesome contract with great benifits.

Each group of FO's at both companies strives to make Captain pay, no suprise there. The differences of QOL and pay from each contract makes the career expectations a little different at each carrier. I'm sure SWAPA and ALPA have done the math. I'm not going to beat that dead horse. I believe the arbitor will use the contracts on each property on Sept. 27th to make those comparisons.

It would be similiar to SWAPA passing a new contract with a 30 percent payraise today and trying to use those numbers for arbitration. I'm really glad your pilot group passed that new contract with the bonuses. If anyone in this industry deserved them it was you guys!

I hope ALPA doesn't burn the house down over there in the meantime.

Cheers.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Don

A smaller carrier? AirTran is a Major airline just like SWA is.

Actually, Yahoo considers us both regionals. Which I think is funny. Calling yourself a "Major" does not make you a bigger carrier than Southwest. You are still a "smaller" carrier. Sorry those facts are hurting your feelings. And, your case.

You may have more pilots on your seniority list at this point in time by virtue of longevity, but that doesn't mean that you are any better (or worse) than any AirTran pilot

.

I can't speak to the latter but I have been at three other airlines. I have seen bits and pieces of your contract and I am much more content with ours. However, happiness is a subjective thing and can be weighed in many different ways. I can tell you this. No Southwest pilot has left Southwest to go to Airtran. No Southwest guys have had applications on file at AAI. Can you say the same for Airtran guys. Is that not indicative of the collective level of happiness at AAI vs WN?

"Massive difference in career expectation"? Says who? You? AirTran pilots have the capability to upgrade to Captain much quicker than a SWA pilot does. I expected to upgrade in 5 years. Did it in 4.

And, the upgrades at Colgan are even faster than that. Does that mean that it's a better place to be?

The career expection of every AirTran pilot is to progress to the Left seat as soon as possible, achieve the highest pay possible along with the best quality of life possible. How is that any different than the career expectation of every SWA pilot?

A very general statement but true and it could be said that way for all pilots. If Airtran stands alone how will that compare side by side to the the career expectations of the Southwest pilot? Upgrade is not everything. If it was we'd all be working for whoever offers the quickest upgrade.

 

[ATLplt]

They have been very successful at working with the company to get an awesome contract with great benifits.

Yes Red, but it's much easier to be successful when your management actually TRIES to be fair at the table. That's part of your corporate culture. You're lucky to have those people in charge and making decisions at your airline.

When you have an airline management that's top heavy with Eastern, NWA, and USAir (anti-labor) retreads it's almost impossible without threatening to close the doors. Even then, they still spit in your face. Things are forced to become hostle, unfortunately.

 

[texman]

Yes Red, but it's much easier to be successful when your management actually TRIES to be fair at the table. That's part of your corporate culture. You're lucky to have those people in charge and making decisions at your airline.

When you have an airline management that's top heavy with Eastern, NWA, and USAir (anti-labor) retreads it's almost impossible without threatening to close the doors. Even then, they still spit in your face. Things are forced to become hostle, unfortunately.

As you can see MV is trying to tell ALPA it is all good. Just tell ALPA to see the light and not burn the house down. Soon your group will be part of our family. The end is near, and a better future is ahead. I just wouldn't want ALPA to bite the hand that is about to feed them. It is common sense. Over night you will get a huge pay bump/Qol once Uncle Gary optimizes the AT fleet. That is with your current contract.

 

[scarlet]

It is not double pay raise like you guys keep suggesting...

About 1500 more a month=which I will gladly take. I would not say a HUGE pay raise. Seniority is more important !!

And YES they have to adhere to the Railway Labor Act. Can not just hire and replace us. Read and know the laws..THat is why the CFO sent the letter to ALPA. They have to adhere to alleghany mohawk and all laws in a merger.

Just like you will love our 737 orders=GROWTH and our training dept.(APDs) and worlds largest airport and Intl ops (how is raft training coming along) and reservation system, and internet, XM radio, not to mention flight bags in cockpit,...Ask all your SWA mgt people that have been in ATL and MCO to look at our operations. They are blown away of how advanced AT really is.

 

[scarlet]

With SWA and SWAPA agreement they signed, all future 737 a/c deliveries will be to the SWA side of house= what about the 20 717s in Mexico=

What happens if SWA decides to take them? not in the agreement and AT has the training dept and APDs?

 

[Roomwithaview]

scarlet

It is not double pay raise like you guys keep suggesting...

About 1500 more a month=which I will gladly take. I would not say a HUGE pay raise. Seniority is more important !!

I would not say double and I don't know who has. However. It will be much more than 1500 a month.

And YES they have to adhere to the Railway Labor Act. Can not just hire and replace us.

I don't think anyone in any position of power has ever suggested ignoring RLA laws.

Read and know the laws..THat is why the CFO sent the letter to ALPA. They have to adhere to alleghany mohawk and all laws in a merger.

What I read was an interpretation of Mr. VDV's letter from the head of your MEC. He is obviously not happy with the way things are progressing. He keeps telling us to get involved in the Collective Bargaining process between Airtran and Alpa. That is not going to happen as that would be a violation of the RLA. SWAPA has no right to represent or negotiate for anyone that is not on the SWAPA master seniority list. Also, SWA is bound by our CBA to not negotiate with any other pilots than those that are on the SWAPA master seniority list. So, it appears to me that Linden needs to bone up on the RLA.

Just like you will love our 737 orders=GROWTH and our training dept.(APDs) and worlds largest airport and Intl ops (how is raft training coming along) and reservation system, and internet, XM radio, not to mention flight bags in cockpit,...Ask all your SWA mgt people that have been in ATL and MCO to look at our operations. They are blown away of how advanced AT really is.

Says you. I'm sure it wouldn't take much to "blow away" a team that just turned on ATS and ABS.

SWA has always been about keeping it simple to make money. That theory seems to have worked well for us for many years. I can't remember how many successful quarters we have under our belt but it's a lot. And WE (the pilots of SWAPA) had a lot to do with that success.

I'm sure you will bring a lot to the table and we all appreciate that you do things different than us. Hopefully you will be able to be "blown away" by some of the things that we've learned to do successfully as well.

 

[On Your Six]

I would not say double and I don't know who has. However. It will be much more than 1500 a month.

I don't think anyone in any position of power has ever suggested ignoring RLA laws.

What I read was an interpretation of Mr. VDV's letter from the head of your MEC. He is obviously not happy with the way things are progressing. He keeps telling us to get involved in the Collective Bargaining process between Airtran and Alpa. That is not going to happen as that would be a violation of the RLA. SWAPA has no right to represent or negotiate for anyone that is not on the SWAPA master seniority list. Also, SWA is bound by our CBA to not negotiate with any other pilots than those that are on the SWAPA master seniority list. So, it appears to me that Linden needs to bone up on the RLA.

Says you. I'm sure it wouldn't take much to "blow away" a team that just turned on ATS and ABS.

SWA has always been about keeping it simple to make money. That theory seems to have worked well for us for many years. I can't remember how many successful quarters we have under our belt but it's a lot. And WE (the pilots of SWAPA) had a lot to do with that success.

I'm sure you will bring a lot to the table and we all appreciate that you do things different than us. Hopefully you will be able to be "blown away" by some of the things that we've learned to do successfully as well.

Room,

Southwest just started using VNAV and Autothrottles. Management doesn't let you fly international flights yet. I would say Airtran is a lot more advanced than your operation. But, the Airtran guys will be blown away when they see their first joint operation check thanks to your contract. Good for all of you.

OYS

 

[SWA/FO]

SWA is bound by our CBA to not negotiate with any other pilots than those that are on the SWAPA master seniority list. So, it appears to me that Linden needs to bone up on the RLA.

Bingo, we have a winner.

 

[texman]

It is not double pay raise like you guys keep suggesting...

About 1500 more a month=which I will gladly take. I would not say a HUGE pay raise. Seniority is more important !!

And YES they have to adhere to the Railway Labor Act. Can not just hire and replace us. Read and know the laws..THat is why the CFO sent the letter to ALPA. They have to adhere to alleghany mohawk and all laws in a merger.

Just like you will love our 737 orders=GROWTH and our training dept.(APDs) and worlds largest airport and Intl ops (how is raft training coming along) and reservation system, and internet, XM radio, not to mention flight bags in cockpit,...Ask all your SWA mgt people that have been in ATL and MCO to look at our operations. They are blown away of how advanced AT really is.

Are the numbers you quote from your old contract or new? I think we can learn a lot from AT. No doubt it will be fun.

 

[redflyer65]

Yes Red, but it's much easier to be successful when your management actually TRIES to be fair at the table. That's part of your corporate culture. You're lucky to have those people in charge and making decisions at your airline.

When you have an airline management that's top heavy with Eastern, NWA, and USAir (anti-labor) retreads it's almost impossible without threatening to close the doors. Even then, they still spit in your face. Things are forced to become hostle, unfortunately.

I understand. You should have never had to put up with that. Please leave those guys at the door..

 

[Tweet-a-Lishus]

Scarlet, you guys keep talking about the future airplanes Airtran is bringing to the table, you must have missed the part last week when your CEO testified in Wisconsin under oath in front of the Senate panel that Airtran can't afford to pay for the future deliveries, or future growth. So please when you make a statement give us all the information, not just what you think will posture yourself for a better SLI. I too will welcome you all to the SWA family, but in your rightful place!

 

[Roomwithaview]

Six

Six
I'll stick the facts. You can go off on a rant if it makes you feel better. Ranting will not change whatever is to happen.

Soon we will all be working for the same airline. I will live and stand by any comments that I make regarding AAI/SWA. I hope you can do the same.

Southwest just started using VNAV and Autothrottles. Management doesn't let you fly international flights yet.

Interesting choice of words. I would say we don't fly international because it has not been in the best interest of our company to do so. You know, that whole concept of making money? How many successful quarters of profit has Airtran/Valuejet had since inception? I could also say that a LCC that specifically AVOIDS flying where SWA is does so for a good reason. Because they are unable to compete with us head to head. Why is that? Successful business model on our part. Obviously International was not in the cards. It is now. And we will be going there soon.

Regarding VNAV and ATS I believe I pointed out that SWA was not on board with that. I would not call either of those items "cutting edge technology" I have been at SWA for over 15 years and two of the prior airlines I worked at were both full up automated. So, I had to dumb myself down to fly it the old way, like a 200, when I got here. There was an intelligent reason for that. The FAA bought off on the concept that the 700 was like the 300/500 was like the 200. Therefore, we all avoided 90 day currency problems (huge cost savings) when we would jump from ship to ship. Amazing to me that the POI signed off on it. Eventually they made us break out the 200 and that was the beginning of the slow creep into the automation era.

I would say Airtran is a lot more advanced than your operation.

Advanced in what way? I'm sure there are more advanced airlines than Airtran out there.The barometer for us all is making money and having a successful career, company wise and Pilot wise. If Airtran had it all over SWA then I'm sure you would be buying us. That is not happening. We are buying you.

But, the Airtran guys will be blown away when they see their first joint operation check thanks to your contract.

This is not in dispute. You will be blown away with your pay, schedule and QOL. Especially if your pay rates are based on TIS at Airtran/Valuejet.

 

[Ty Webb]

Six
I'll stick the facts. You can go off on a rant if it makes you feel better. Ranting will not change whatever is to happen.

Soon we will all be working for the same airline.

Is SWA buying Delta, too?

SWA pay, and DAL routes and aircraft? Sign me up! Woo-hoo! :beer:

 

[Roomwithaview]

Ty

Is SWA buying Delta, too?

SWA pay, and DAL routes and aircraft? Sign me up! Woo-hoo!

I don't know? Do you know something I don't?

 

[Quimby]

OYS is a Delta guy, not AAI.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Quimby

Did not know that. I wrongfully assumed that anyone that was espousing their opinion about our and their seniority list would have some skin in the game. Which puzzles me even further. Also, no one sent me the list showing who works for which airline.

So, I guess what you're telling me is that there are pilots from other airlines posting on threads that have nothing to do with them intentionally trying to fan the flames of discontent? Nice! This place is even more mature than I originally thought.

 

[Quimby]

Just sorta picked it up in his profile where it said "Big D" 320 new hire.

And yes, he/she seems to have a fascination with the SWA/AAI deal.