AIRTRAN has a TA ?!?!

[Lear70]

Citrus is right, that's effectively a 10-15% pay cut on 3 out of 4 trips I've flown every month for the last year.

GT1900, you missed where we lost the better of scheduled block or better. They've also gone to a 3-month average for computing credit instead of using passenger flight schedules.

The ENTIRE SCHEDULING SECTION alone is a cumulative 15-20% pay CUT and will have to be re-written, as well as SCOPE, COMPENSATION, AND RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE.

Basically the meat and potatoes of the entire agreement. I don't think a simple change of a couple section's wording is going to do it and sending Skipper back in there is a MISTAKE! He believes in this thing, and will just want to tweak a few things and send it back to us.

We have to have someone running the NC who is IN TOUCH with the pilot group and won't bring anything substandard back.

 

[mnboyev]

So... did they take the bankrupt airlines and copy their imposed work rules

 

[cl65capt]

Think we can talk Mike B into coming back? I promise you he wouldnt have brought us this POS.

 

[gt1900]

I hate to say this, but Mike M wouldn't have brought us anything.. The company wasn't going to negotiate with him.. Too much water under the bridge... Lear... Block or better is gone as well?? It just keeps getting worse and worse...

 

[DougCorp-9]

Hey Lear,

Where does it say we lost block or better. I missed that one.

 

[Kharma Police]

I hate to say this, but Mike M wouldn't have brought us anything.. The company wasn't going to negotiate with him.. Too much water under the bridge... Lear... Block or better is gone as well?? It just keeps getting worse and worse...

Thats tough shiznit if the company doesn't want to negotiate with Mike B! You think think the NPA likes to negotiate with Steve K? Since the company wanted Mike B gone then the NPA should have demanded Steve Ks removal!

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

The ENTIRE SCHEDULING SECTION alone is a cumulative 15-20% pay CUT and will have to be re-written, as well as SCOPE, COMPENSATION, AND RETIREMENT AND INSURANCE.

Don't forget the training section. Not recommended for checkride is now the same as failed checkride. Do you really want a 72-year-old scab, who shouldn't even be alowed near the simulator, deciding your career?

 

[IFLYASA]

Good lucks guys/gals. We cannot even get a T/A here at ASA, even after 4 1/2 years. I hope to be joining you soon. Keep it strong and don't back down!

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

Well I guys I think it might be time cut our losses. All the FOs that are on the fence, it time to open the flood gates. Hey Lear I will race you to the door.

This whole thing has me so pissed off!!:uzi:

 

[newnan]

When we vote this down, what then? Will it go back to the negotiating committee and company to rehash it out and then will we get to vote on it again or will it just go to the BOD for their approval and we'll be stuck with whatever they come up with?

 

[DougCorp-9]

Membership ratification is required. The BOD cannot impose it.

 

[BigEasy]

It is time for the junior pilots at Airtran (57% of our pilots have been here 5 years or less according to the Jan 1. seniority list) to speak out.

.

I did speak out, I left the company earlier this year and have never looked back. Don't get me wrong, I flew with some really great individuals there, but my experience was absolutely horrible. Upper management can take this TA and shove you know where. I'm all worked up and I don't even work there anymore. You guys deserve much much more than this!

So is coach gonna keep track of all the doctors notes?

The union should be ashamed of passing this to you guys!

Sorry, but after experiencing all the crap there for two years seeing this proposal pisses me off.

Do what is right!

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

From talking to BoD member today, their sales pitch on this will be something like this: "yeah it's not great, but if we go back to the table, we will end up with the same thing only a year later, and will have no merger protection during next few months"

My view on it - I will take my chance on that. I think if we vote this down by huge numbers, we will get much better deal in however long it takes.

We need a new NC....at least!

 

[DougCorp-9]

If the company screws us on a merger I'll just set the parking brake. The pilots control this airline as long as they don't leave their nuts at home in the refrigerator. The company dones't want to play that game.

 

[CitationLover]

....and will have no merger protection during next few months"

400 MEH pilots scare them that much? at a worst case, the AAI list stapled to MEH list, you'd still in all likelihood come out ahead versus keeping what you have now.

 

[LUalum]

Make sure to join the NPA pilot conference call tonight at 7pm est. It should be interesting.

 

[Ty Webb]

I hate to say this, but Mike M wouldn't have brought us anything.. The company wasn't going to negotiate with him.. Too much water under the bridge... Lear...

You are mistaken . . . when AP caved and withdrew MB, it was a weakness that put the COmpany in the drivers' seat.

We would have been better off with MB standing tough, than we are now, wasting time with this completely concessionary POS that is an insult to every pilot on the property.

 

[Fly-By-Cable]

If the company screws us on a merger I'll just set the parking brake. The pilots control this airline as long as they don't leave their nuts at home in the refrigerator. The company dones't want to play that game.

Yep! In ATL it doesn't matter how slow you taxi to the runway. As you get sequence when you call Ground at 4-South. Now if you take you time getting to 4-South (as we all should 'cause of all vehicles and ramp activity) then there could be 5-10 other airplanes who called for taxi ahead of you. And if a couple of those are Heavy then you're stuck in a small line.

At other airports I will exercise extreme caution when taxing.

 

[Ace McCoy]

So confused

I'm posting this two threads because I'm so confused...

Does anyone out there have any ideas why the NPA agreed to so many concessions in this TA with basically nothing in return? I can't find one giveback that the NPA can say "well at least we got X back for the pilots"

For instance we gave up the door time in return for what? Gave up retiree medical for what? And the list goes on.

We are not in bankruptcy or on the verge of a strike so there seems no reason to me that the NC should even entertain stuff that is worse than current book.

That is my main problem. Why was there so many givebacks for no reason? I would have been completely fine with current book and 15-25% raises across the board.

 

[Lear70]

Too much water under the bridge... Lear... Block or better is gone as well?? It just keeps getting worse and worse...

Slide # 10: "Core CREDIT time, based on Median ACTUAL block times from the same 3 month periods from last year".

The LOA signed by AP regarding "look back" block or better for the entire day is incorporated into the new T.A.

One of the guys who actually read this thing says that Section 4.I is completely missing from the new T.A.

So yeah, we lost it.

From talking to BoD member today, their sales pitch on this will be something like this: "yeah it's not great, but if we go back to the table, we will end up with the same thing only a year later, and will have no merger protection during next few months"

That's a bunch of horsesh*t.

EVERYONE needs to understand this, and take a good, close look at the UAir and AWA integration.

The FAA will NOT allow one certificate holder to operate two separate certificates as a single operation.

Additionally, should the seniority problem not be solvable and it goes to court, the Allegheny-Mohawk precedent also REQUIRES the two groups to be combined into one.

Since we are not ALPA, DOH isn't a valid merging term as it would result in a "windfall" to the MEH group.

In short, WE DO have merger protection, as the company can't operate the two companies separately under one name and WE get to work out terms through the M&A committee, run by BD.

This needs to be CLEARLY understood by every pilot here. We're evidently going to have to work out a flyer for every pilot that contradicts and clarifies the inaccuracies published by the BOD and NC and distribute it to everyone...