AirTran Furloughs coming

[JoeMerchant]

We're looking at 8+ year upgrades now. On these FO rates, that's not livable.

.....I thought you made it to Nirvana? Are you going to be able to afford that beer? Why did you take a job that "isn't livable"....Oh wait...never mind....it's the THIRD time you have taken a flying job that "isn't livable" while you throw stones at those who stay at their livable jobs....

 

[gt1900]

PCL... If you can't live off AAI FO wages you only have yourself to blame. I am an FO, and I live nicely on my FO wages. But then again, I don't live above my means. How are you gonna live off unemployment if you can't live off current wages??? Its pretty easy to make $60,000 + a year at AAI. That is more then most Americans. Im on track to make $80,000+ this year. I swap trips for better pay, but rarely pick up extra flying. I don't want a pay cut, but if it meant AAI would stay in business, I would be willing to take a small reduction in wages. Note I said small reduction..

 

[PCL_128]

Joey, it's livable for me personally (barely), but I don't have kids or other obligations that many pilots here have. If a paycut were to take place, then it would no longer be livable even for me, however.

But don't worry, Joey, because you'll be the one buying the beer. This pilot group won't be voting for paycuts.

 

[PCL_128]

PCL... If you can't live off AAI FO wages you only have yourself to blame. I am an FO, and I live nicely on my FO wages. But then again, I don't live above my means. How are you gonna live off unemployment if you can't live off current wages??? Its pretty easy to make $60,000 + a year at AAI. That is more then most Americans. Im on track to make $80,000+ this year. I swap trips for better pay, but rarely pick up extra flying. I don't want a pay cut, but if it meant AAI would stay in business, I would be willing to take a small reduction in wages. Note I said small reduction..

Thankfully, your willingness to take a paycut seems to be in the vast minority.

 

[wscrj]

gt...some of us have children. That 60 grand gets spread pretty thin when it's covering 5 people.

Furthermore...my job isn't like most Americans,

 

[gt1900]

wscrj.... I'm not saying it doesn't. However, $60,000 is a heii of a lot better then an unemployment line. Its not easy to replace our jobs with another one that pays $60,000 a year. Plus, you guys have a lot more money in the bank then we do. And your hedged. We don't have a lot of cash and we aren't hedged. Remember, almost every airline took pay cuts after 9/11... The oil crunch could very easily prove to be much worse for the airlines then 9/11. If you don't think everyone is going to be taking pay cuts soon if oil doesn't retreat your crazy.. Pilots have shown over and over again they will vote for reasonable pay cuts if they think it would save their jobs.....

PCL.. I have no words for you.. Everyone on FI knows your an idiot...

 

[PCL_128]

Everyone on FI knows your an idiot...

Never fails.

 

[gt1900]

If I wanted to be an english teacher I would have majored in enlgish... dip$%^$

BTW.. Comming from a guy who paid for his job at Gulfstream to get ahead and is only 1 month off probation, your opinion doesn't mean much...

 

[the turtle]

By Darren Shannon
Lufthansa is warning that industrial action by disgruntled workers could again affect the carrier's operations as they did during a temporary walkout earlier today.
The roughly four-hour walkout by several labor groups resulted in the cancellations of 44 flights, confirms Lufthansa.
Most affected were services from Frankfurt, where check-in and catering staff held a temporary strike starting at 4 a.m. local time. Similar industrial action by engineers in Cologne and Stuttgart and baggage handlers in Munich also caused some cancellations.
Most affected were domestic services, although some European flights were also cancelled, adds the German carrier. About 30 long-haul services from Frankfurt were also delayed because of the walk-out.
Some 3,400 passengers were affected by the cancellations.
In a statement, Lufthansa notes that the dispute is unwarranted. "In view of the existing offer of a 5.5% pay increase, Lufthansa believes these actions are unnecessary. Such actions are not suited to achieving a sensible solution. We fully regret the inconvenience this has caused our passengers," it says.
Lufthansa's unions are seeking a 9.8% increase instead of the airline's two-phased offer from the airline.
This is the second lightening strike by Lufthansa employees; on June 19, 2,000 ground workers in Hamburg walked out over the same pay dispute.
Lufthansa also warns that further strikes could occur. "We also cannot rule out more cancellations at short notice for operational reasons," it says.

 

[Murphy]

PCL... If you can't live off AAI FO wages you only have yourself to blame. I am an FO, and I live nicely on my FO wages. But then again, I don't live above my means. How are you gonna live off unemployment if you can't live off current wages??? Its pretty easy to make $60,000 + a year at AAI. That is more then most Americans. Im on track to make $80,000+ this year. I swap trips for better pay, but rarely pick up extra flying. I don't want a pay cut, but if it meant AAI would stay in business, I would be willing to take a small reduction in wages. Note I said small reduction..

People like you sell this profession down the river. I talked to a truck driver last week who makes $108,000 a year and his skills are transportable between jobs. He was laughing all the way to the bank when I talked to him. All our experience gets us is an interview if someone is looking to hire and the opportunity to start over at the bottom of some pay scale and raise the gear for someone who just got a better break because of timing. So do you think your skills are worth only $60,000. Most of the legacy pilots took pay cuts after 9/11 because a bankruptcy judge imposed his/her will on a labor group. You can't compare our measly $60,000 a year against other carriers rates that were imposed on them by judges due to bankruptcy. Don't include me when you sign up for concessions. I'm disgusted.

 

[BR715]

Top 10 reasons I will vote no for any wage reduction.

10. 30 minute van rides to hotels
9. Hotels that still have furniture from the 1970's.
8. Hotels with no food in them or around them
7. Every line has all four days
6. 4 hour sits in BWI, MCO, BOS, PHF
5. Fly a red eye, sit 2hours fly again.
4. Getting messed with on check rides
3. Freaked out gate agents
2. Kolsk's tactics
1. Eight years under the same contract.

 

[gt1900]

Murphy.... Im not voting for a concession.. However, under the right conditions I may, simple as that. Right now the company isn't even close to the right conditions.... BTW.. If a truck driver told you he makes 100,000+ a year I call B.S. That just happens to be an industry I know a little something about. Lets just say my family may have one or two truck drivers in it that might own a couple trucking companys. He sure the he11 dosn't make it driving long haul, being an owner operator, or working for a construction company even if he is making prevailing wage. He MIGHT make that much working for a coal mine in WY driving a CAT 797 or 793. He could make that much working in Iraq, but otherwise, it ain't happening.... He might make that much working on the ice roads in Canada, but thats it..

 

[spacecadet1]

You guys are flying for a scab founded airline; what did you expect?

 

[PinnacleDude]

I was jumpseating on SWA the other day and told the crew that AIRTRAN now had a lower ex-fuel CASM. The Captain's response, "Wouldn't want to trade paychecks with 'em."

Hate to say it, but I think Joe Merchant wins the bet by a landslide. Sorry 128, TY, Lear. You guys are right on, but I think that in the end the senior guys will sell the younger ones down the river. Saw it at NWA and I think it will happen here, too. Hope I'm wrong.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joey, it's livable for me personally (barely), but I don't have kids or other obligations that many pilots here have. If a paycut were to take place, then it would no longer be livable even for me, however.

You flip floping more than Obama...First your job is the greatest thing since sliced bread....then it isn't livable....well then it is for you.....

But don't worry, Joey, because you'll be the one buying the beer. This pilot group won't be voting for paycuts.

I hope so....doesn't do me any good if you guys take paycuts and I hope you don't....But you will....The seiniority system has a way of making that happen....

 

[JoeMerchant]

Top 10 reasons I will vote no for any wage reduction.

10. 30 minute van rides to hotels
9. Hotels that still have furniture from the 1970's.
8. Hotels with no food in them or around them
7. Every line has all four days
6. 4 hour sits in BWI, MCO, BOS, PHF
5. Fly a red eye, sit 2hours fly again.
4. Getting messed with on check rides
3. Freaked out gate agents
2. Kolsk's tactics
1. Eight years under the same contract.

Wait a minute...PCL_128 brags about the schedules...Which is it? Something doesn't add up...PCL_128....What say you about this list?

 

[PCL_128]

Wait a minute...PCL_128 brags about the schedules...Which is it? Something doesn't add up...PCL_128....What say you about this list?

Every line is filled with 4-days. However, your assertion about less days off because of the 12-hour duty day is incorrect. Those lines with 4-day trips have several more days off each month than your lines which have 14-hour duty days. Your love of greater than 12 hour duty days would not go over well here, Joey. We voted down a TA that extended it to just 13 hours.

 

[MINIME]

gt1900,

While your self preservation motives are normal, they are not right. Airline management counts on people to sympathize with their cost cutting plans that almost always involve taking from the employees. In your mind you might think you're doing what's necessary to save your company. And it's OK to try and help your employer. But you really have to know when and how much. And given the current fuel prices, even if you gave them your whole paycheck, it would not be enough.

See the problem is not you. The problem is oil. They know it but they also know that there's always nervous employees that can be taken advantage off. And if the time is right (ie negotiations) they will do it because their success rate with a distressed group is much higher. In other words, they will ask for concessions because they can and not because they need them or make a difference.

Your hard earned money will end up in some country club or some Rolls Royce dealership. I guarantee it! Your concessions will be the equivalent of pissing in the ocean in the hopes of creating bigger waves. Which by all accounts is impossible. Therefore, a better use of your concessions is to make those retainment bonuses possible for your management. If you really can't sleep at night because your CEO is not getting his millions in bonuses, then by all means, go ahead and give them your concession. But I can assure you, it will not save your job or perhaps those of your colleagues.

Lastly, you cannot compare the concessions that DAL took versus the ones that your company is asking for. One, DAL was among the highest paid at the time of that event. Two, they did not voluntarily give them away, they were forced by a judge to some degree. Three, your group can't really afford them. It's already one of the lowest paid airlines out there. What more do you want to give?!!

 

[Flynfish]

Hey Joe, you seem to think that the senior pilots will sell out the "Friendly New Guys", and that is total B.S. I am in the top 30% of the list, and I have talked to several co workers, who are senior to me, and they too, would vote NO to this crappy proposition in a heartbeat. There is no way in hell I would vote for a pay cut. NEVER!!!!

 

[PCL_128]

I agree. Everything I've heard from most of the senior guys goes completely against the idea of concessions. Many of them were ok with the last TA, but actually taking paycuts is a different story.