AirTran Furloughs coming

[Dumb Pilot]

....hey at least we can agree that Bud is horse piss....:beer:

You can buy me a Sam Adams instead....

You two are actually going to sit down together and drink it? I don't have jumpseat privileges anymore but I will gladly pay full fair to witness that:laugh:

 

[Clyde Frog]

I have no faith on this management team to get us out of this mess. Zero respect for the pilot group, more like total distain. Flagrant contract violations.

I have no faith in our union to lead this pilot group.

The oil bubble better burst soon else were all scewed.

They can shove those concessions straight up their asses.

 

[PCL_128]

We may all try and beat our chests and say we won't take concessions, but if it comes down to it, we will.

Beg to differ.

 

[Just thinking]

BWI-MCO
Departing 1 September...
Returning 6 September...
Lowest cost as of TODAY= $78.00 one way.

If this pilot group flew the way they manage fares we would be sitting in the gate with both engines running, aft tail cone deployed, flashing our nose lights to get the catering folks to come empty the lavs while the ground crew is hooking up the air conditioning to the apu air inlet door.

They have failed in their responsibility to ensure this company will succeed. They KNOW what their fuel cost is now and they set a fare that low?

No concession now or ever. We have had nothing for the past four years while they have gorged themselves with bonuses and pay raises. Time for them to get off thier fat arses and do their job.

Typical weak effort on their part to survive in the challenges of the industry... cower and hide while you sacrifice the very people that are responsible for your success.

These pieces if shiite are at the same level of worthlessness as the oil speculators that have artificially inflated the cost of oil.
Poor excuses for human beings.

 

[Marko Ramius]

That is certainly one school of thought.

Others here disagree. Who can tell? AirTran, United, Frontier and others may very well fail forever by that time (though I hope not), which could effectively deal with "overcapacity."

After 30 failed years of, 'we don't have to make money, we just have to lose less and out last the other guy,' theory it's time to bury the elimination of overcapacity theory in this business as well. I know it comes from ECON 101 supply and demand, but there is zero evidence that the airline industry that supports the overcapacity theory. Airlines have come and gone since deregulation, but their capacity always gets picked up and more passengers continue to travel on planes with historically high load factors. What makes people think that if any of the usual suspect carriers fail that their capacity won't be replaced? Braniff's capacity was more than suitably replaced by AA, DL, and even WN in Dallas, Pan Am and TWA in NY were replaced by Delta, AA, and even CO in EWR. Eastern in ATL by DL and Air Tran and so on. Pittsburgh and St. Louis are the main two hubsites that have been lost but their capacity has not been lost. The allure of market share and the incredible barriers to entry that this industry creates with acquisition of slots and real estate at airports all add into the likelihood that carriers will move quickly to fill any true voids caused by failed carriers.

 

[400ADude]

No way a paycut will pass. As low as you guys are paid and then throw in inflation and COLA I would bet even money it will not pass, not even close. Shove it up their a$$.

 

[carl p]

Full pay to the last day!

 

[Captjiggles]

Full pay to the last day!

You may rethink that when or if your sen # gets close to the chopping block.

 

[Soverytired]

After 30 failed years of, 'we don't have to make money, we just have to lose less and out last the other guy,' theory it's time to bury the elimination of overcapacity theory in this business as well. I know it comes from ECON 101 supply and demand, but there is zero evidence that the airline industry that supports the overcapacity theory. Airlines have come and gone since deregulation, but their capacity always gets picked up and more passengers continue to travel on planes with historically high load factors. What makes people think that if any of the usual suspect carriers fail that their capacity won't be replaced? Braniff's capacity was more than suitably replaced by AA, DL, and even WN in Dallas, Pan Am and TWA in NY were replaced by Delta, AA, and even CO in EWR. Eastern in ATL by DL and Air Tran and so on. Pittsburgh and St. Louis are the main two hubsites that have been lost but their capacity has not been lost. The allure of market share and the incredible barriers to entry that this industry creates with acquisition of slots and real estate at airports all add into the likelihood that carriers will move quickly to fill any true voids caused by failed carriers.

I agree, mostly.

However, I think that's different this time is that with fuel prices soaring to permanent, very high levels (if, in fact, they are), US airlines are looking at a permanent contraction of significant levels.

Until they get there, there simply are too many planes chasing too few ticket holders. Now gas may drop, or the "magic fuel" may be developed, and we'll be back to the traditional days of easy entry of new capacity into the market.

Personally, I think those days are pretty much over. Many small and a couple of big airlines are going to fail, and the survivors MAY be able to eek out a small profit from a much smaller passenger base when all is said and done.

 

[BR715]

I'm voting no. They are gonna get the cuts anyway when we go in to bankruptcy.

 

[twepilot]

we have a winner..

RV

 

[Colonel Savage]

I agree, mostly.

However, I think that's different this time is that with fuel prices soaring to permanent, very high levels (if, in fact, they are), US airlines are looking at a permanent contraction of significant levels.

Until they get there, there simply are too many planes chasing too few ticket holders. Now gas may drop, or the "magic fuel" may be developed, and we'll be back to the traditional days of easy entry of new capacity into the market.

Personally, I think those days are pretty much over. Many small and a couple of big airlines are going to fail, and the survivors MAY be able to eek out a small profit from a much smaller passenger base when all is said and done.

There is proving to be, in the current airline environment, a lack of new investment capital from equity firms both for new entrants and bankruptcy proceedings. This will likely lead to more failures and capacity reductions, which is the necessary medicine for today's over capacity.

Once capacity is rationalized, Congress must then pass laws restricting new entrants to ensure over capacity from building again and allow pricing control.

 

[SkiFishFly]

FO pay is sooooo very insignificant compared to the cost for fuel. I've done some calculations over the last couple of months my pay is always less than 2 bucks per paying passenger.
CA pay is 4-5 bucks per paying passenger.

Management - you have failed to negotiate and you already owe us 3 plus years of back pay. You already have your concessions

NO NEW CONCESSIONS!!!!

 

[TV9Driver]

I've been furloughed before and it hurted more than I ever imagined it would. With that being said, I am in no way EVER going to vote for concessions. We are so underpaid right now, this job isn't worth doing for less than we are getting paid now. I'm not about to be a career FO making $50k a year - that is a salary I can replace. At some point we've got to make a stand.

Maybe we can start with Bob giving back his 4 million dollar bonus...

 

[twepilot]

then why don't you step aside and allow one of the FO's that are going to be furloughed to retain their job. Put your money where your mouth is.

RV