Airtran contract

[Eagle757shark]

Just giving an example of the best management money can buy. As a furloughed guy I say not one red cent. Any contract must be better than TA2 that was voted down. Like was said before, if this company fails it is not because of employee costs or the fact that the front line employees did not try to make the company successful.

Hey bud, my heart goes out to you! I truely hope that you are able to find a better opportunity in the near future. We have Captains selfishly flying in the right seat because we are short First officers! But we just furloughed 169 pilots? I have no respect for these individuals. They will try to justify to the world why they are doing what they are doing, but it is plain wrong!

Hold your head up high and hang in there!

 

[bleagle]

AirTran management FAILED with the ATA deal in Chicago, then FAILED with the MIDWEST deal in MKE, and FAILED to resolve a CBA with their pilots union.

AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with SWA on the ATA deal....

AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with NWA ..err I mean TPG on the Midwest deal....

But AT mgmt HAS FAILED to foster a nice company culture, create diversified income receivables and failed to resolve a CBA with it's pilots.

My point is you cannot blame AT mgmt for ATA and MW deal.... AT vs SWA and AT vs NWA/TPG, well I can tell you who will win that battle EVERY TIME.

 

[Eagle757shark]

AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with SWA on the ATA deal....

AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with NWA ..err I mean TPG on the Midwest deal....

But AT mgmt HAS FAILED to foster a nice company culture, create diversified income receivables and failed to resolve a CBA with it's pilots.

My point is you cannot blame AT mgmt for ATA and MW deal.... AT vs SWA and AT vs NWA/TPG, well I can tell you who will win that battle EVERY TIME.

Yes you can blame AirTran management. AirTran management played around and was trying to be cheap. AirTran could have completed the deal with ATA long before ATA went into bankruptcy, but their arrogance and being cheap allowed them to be outplayed. They didn't think Southwest would jump in the game. But that goes to show you how arrogant these people are. They let their deal go to the courts and they lost there. Go back and do a search and you will find that the ATA deal was inked long before bankruptcy. Why did they let it go into bankruptcy, because they were hoping to get something on the cheap! That's the way things work at AirTran. As far Northwest, you are wrong again. Airtran was willing to pay over $400 million dollars on their last offer for Midwest. Well if they had not been arrogant, they would have tried to close the Midwest deal prior to Northwest coming out of bankruptcy. If Midwest and a MKE hub was so vital to their business plan, they would have not nickel and dimed the deal and gone in and made a better offer before Northwest came out of bankruptcy and trumped them again! (Keep in mind Northwest could not play in the game while in bankruptcy, I saw this coming why couldn't these guys who earn all their bonus' see it coming) Again this managements arrogance has caused them to FAIL and short of selling airplanes to raise cash, they have no business plan. That is why this company is where it is today. Bottom line, sometimes you have to PAY TO PLAY if you want to be a real player in this industry! NO CONCESSIONS PERIOD!

Oil closed today 9/15/08 at $94.02 a barrel!

 

[bleagle]

Yes you can blame AirTran management. AirTran management played around and was trying to be cheap. AirTran could have completed the deal with ATA long before ATA went into bankruptcy, but their arrogance and being cheap allowed them to be outplayed. They didn't think Southwest would jump in the game. But that goes to show you how arrogant these people are. They let their deal go to the courts and they lost there. Go back and do a search and you will find that the ATA deal was inked long before bankruptcy. Why did they let it go into bankruptcy, because they were hoping to get something on the cheap! That's the way things work at AirTran.

Understood.... Agreed! BUT if AT mgmt countered the offer, don't you think SWA(who wanted to expand MDW service) would have made a better deal? I believe that AT tried to get the cheapest deal possible BUT once SWA got involved it was over. AT doesn't have deep pockets...hence the cheapness....

Still, please do not accept concessions!

As far Northwest, you are wrong again. Airtran was willing to pay over $400 million dollars on their last offer for Midwest. Well if they had not been arrogant, they would have tried to close the Midwest deal prior to Northwest coming out of bankruptcy. If Midwest and a MKE hub was so vital to their business plan, they would have not nickel and dimed the deal and gone in and made a better offer before Northwest came out of bankruptcy and trumped them again! (Keep in mind Northwest could not play in the game while in bankruptcy, I saw this coming why couldn't these guys who earn all their bonus' see it coming) Again this managements arrogance has caused them to FAIL and short of selling airplanes to raise cash, they have no business plan. That is why this company is where it is today. Bottom line, sometimes you have to PAY TO PLAY if you want to be a real player in this industry! NO CONCESSIONS PERIOD!

The deal was made by TPG who wasn't in bankruptcy...but in my opinion was in collusion with NWA. The MidWest board turned down AT for the TPG deal...and according to MW there were at least four more competing deals. The question really becomes...how strong is AT's purchasing power? Can AT really outbid SWA or TPG or NWA?

 

[Eagle757shark]

Understood.... Agreed! BUT if AT mgmt countered the offer, don't you think SWA(who wanted to expand MDW service) would have made a better deal? I believe that AT tried to get the cheapest deal possible BUT once SWA got involved it was over. AT doesn't have deep pockets...hence the cheapness....

Still, please do not accept concessions!





The deal was made by TPG who wasn't in bankruptcy...but in my opinion was in collusion with NWA. The MidWest board turned down AT for the TPG deal...and according to MW there were at least four more competing deals. The question really becomes...how strong is AT's purchasing power? Can AT really outbid SWA or TPG or NWA?

I personally will never accept concessions! Southwest only entered the picture because ATA went into bankruptcy and were accepting potential better offers than AirTran's in bankruptcy. America West almost succeeded at buying all of ATA in Bankruptcy and ATA management was all for it, but America West could not workout a deal with all of ATA's lessors and walked away. The key is AirTran had reach an agreement with ATA prior to bankruptcy. This is significant because they could have just closed the deal prior to ATA going into bankruptcy therefore eliminating any chance of a bidding war. That means Southwest would of had no card to play. The end result would of been ATA would have liquidated earlier, and AirTran would of had 14 gates in MDW and more landing slots in LGA and DCA.

Northwest got TPG in the picture only after they exited Ch.11. They would of had no card to play while in Ch.11 and that's why it was so important to close a deal prior to them exiting bankruptcy. IF AirTran had offered the shareholders that kind of money earlier, Tim would of had no choice but to step aside. With the spike in fuel earlier in 2008, couldn't say if this was a blessing not to go through. However, AirTran would be in a position to strengthen two hubs, which they badly need. Also, who is to say they could not have sold those MD-80s and generated some cash. They would still be able to tinker with capacity and probable have better pricing power in MKE.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.

 

[CoolSidePillow]

NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.

Breathe, breathe, breathe

 

[Colonel Savage]

...I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines...Nothing more to lose.

Easy there fella. Remember this is a semi-anonymous
forum. What you're saying there is pretty dang provocative.

 

[twepilot]

i would delete that post really quick.

RV

 

[atldc9]

NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.

Breathe, breathe, breathe

Just an observation, but no job is worth what you appear to be going thru.

Life is way too short to be unhappy. If you are that pissed off about work when you are not at work, perhaps some change in scenery would do your life, health, family, etc some good.

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.

I understand your frustraion. You may want to ask the Mods to delete that, though. If someone's head get's caved in, they may just come looking for you.

 

[Wesb737fo]

I thought coolside was a "full flaming idiot". Now you have proven me correct. If you are still employed at AirTran , please quit, or at least don't fly to Milwaukee any time soon. My family is going to non rev.

 

[zman]

NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.

Are you guys kidding me?? We need more people like CoolsidePillow!!! God bless you man!!! I hope that Airtran can get more guys like you, dont listen to the rest of these morons. They are to afraid to fight, they will just spend the rest of their lives on their knees. The only thing I would suggest is to use a shovel for the caving!!!

 

[twepilot]

are you two going to get married now?

RV

 

[FlyFastLiveSlow]

Are you guys kidding me?? We need more people like CoolsidePillow!!! God bless you man!!! I hope that Airtran can get more guys like you, dont listen to the rest of these morons. They are to afraid to fight, they will just spend the rest of their lives on their knees. The only thing I would suggest is to use a shovel for the caving!!!

Don't misunderstand, I support the premise of what he says. I just think that he may not want to set himself up for criminal charges.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Ditto .....but the above post along with others lead me to believe he is quite the idiot.

 

[Wesb737fo]

Are you guys kidding me?? We need more people like CoolsidePillow!!! God bless you man!!! I hope that Airtran can get more guys like you, dont listen to the rest of these morons. They are to afraid to fight, they will just spend the rest of their lives on their knees. The only thing I would suggest is to use a shovel for the caving!!!

You make quite a few assumptions without knowing the facts, and that tells me you yourself may be ignorant or stupid. or both. Check your emotions, they may be your undoing.

By the way, I have not flown with alot of Ca's who are afraid to fight and I haven't talked to many fo's who feel that way either. But threatening to Bash someone's skull on a public forum is a rather stupid act. It is not helpful to the pilot group at AirTran or anyone else for that matter, especially the idiot that posted it.

 

[TranSporter]

I was reading the letter from Jeff Miller again and started wondering. When he said that we had very profitable years up until 2007, why did we not share in that profitability? Why were we not able to get a new contract? I know the answers, I just thought it was funny that now they want to tie our future to profitability but when we were profitable, they told us to pound sand.

No concessions. Stand together or fall alone.

 

[Lear70]

I know the answers, I just thought it was funny that now they want to tie our future to profitability but when we were profitable, they told us to pound sand.

Yeah. Funny how that sh*t works... :flippingbird:

(Guess that emoticon doesn't work on this board).

http://home.earthlink.net/~lear70/hot_bird_avatar.jpg

 

[BigMeat]

Joke right?

You guys are joking right. You have turned down three T/As have been operating without a contract for a few years now. You are taking a conscession every day that you do not have a contract. Think you are going to get retro. lol. Have you guys even taken a strike vote yet? Didnt think so. You can even take care of simple grievences. Your union is very weak and very underfunded. NPA has to go. You guys dont even have a real long term disability. No real loss of license. Nothing. NPA does not protect its members. The membership is at the mercy and intimidation of management and training department. You will never get a good contract with NPA. Nor will you ever have a real potential for a strike. What are you paying your union dues for? Somone here please answer that question for me. My brother was recently furloughed at Airtran and I real hate to see the anguish he is going through. I understand that the union could have not prevented a furlough. However I stop and think about when he finally gets recalled. To what. An airline that has no union with a company that plays hardball with its employees on a daily basis. Your union should be able to go head to head with Kloski and his like. Problem is that NPA has no backbone and no funding. If your going to pay union dues pay it to a union that will make a diffrence.