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Airtran contract

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Can furloughs vote?

In conspiracy land getting rid of 169 votes at the time you make a contract offer that screws junior guys is smart if conspiracy land exists.

My friend told me a hotel change is coming in MCO. The Universal LaQ will be changed to an Amerisuites that is going to be remodeled as a Hyatt. I can not verify the story.
 
Please wish the van driver luck as he will most likely lose his job and apartment when we change hotels.

Before the furloughs, was there ever an attempt to trade the 14 retired guys for 14 line guys?

Instead of getting rid of 169 pilots
The company should have kept the 14 training guys and then save 14 pilots and lay off only 169-14= 154

That is called negotiating vs they win all. Nevermind I should have never come back to FI. Back to rehab.
 
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AirTran sent out a letter addressed individually to each pilot. It basically states the union board has chosen to say NO to managements proposal of concessions and now management wants to go to each pilot and let him make their own choice. BLAH, BLAH, BLAH!!! This same old sick tactic just gets old. AirTran management refuses to negotiate in good faith and refuses to abide by the current collective bargaining agreement. Now they want us to TRUST them and accept a 15% paycut for 36 months under their terms!

Here is my answer to that letter: NO WAY WILL I VOTE FOR ANY CONCESSIONS!!!!!!

One more thing, sending me a letter attempting to scare me will never work! If the company is going to enter bankruptcy, it will not go there because I failed to do my job and serve my customers to the best of my ability. It will not happen because I didn't agree to turnover my pay and benefits that are way below industry standards with an airline that currently has the lowest non-fuel cost in the business. This company will only survive when this management team produces a viable business plan short and long term that does not include the hard working frontline employees subsidizing the passengers. This management team needs to learn how to treat its employees. Needs to start holding scheduling accountable for the mismanagement of their resources! Finally, the constant lies that occur at this company from scheduling, and management need to stop. Example....the chief pilot goes to recurrent and ask Captains to fly as FOs when scheduling ask. When pilot in recurrent tells chief pilot that scheduling is URPING pilots on reserve, Chief pilot calls scheduling and ask why they are URPING pilots. Scheduling responds they have not and are not URPING pilots to chief pilot. Recurrent pilot then takes his schedule to chief pilot showing the number of times URPED and could produce 10-15 other pilots in the same situation. This bull has got to STOP! I don't live my life in FEAR! Manage or Fail! But it will not be at the expense of your employees!
 
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As of this morning 9/15/08 at 0920 oil is down to $95.77 dollars a barrel. AirTran bragged to the world that their business plan was based on Oil not exceeding $100 dollars a barrel. I think the problem with AirTran management is they have failed with all their major transactions as of late. AirTran management FAILED with the ATA deal in Chicago, then FAILED with the MIDWEST deal in MKE, and FAILED to resolve a CBA with their pilots union. Where are they going to go outside a merger? They have no short term or long term business plan outside some other airline going out of business. When you try to nickel and dime everything, it eventually catches up with you.

It is time AirTran management EARN those bonus' and put in place a short term and long term business plan. Stop your whining and negotiate in good faith with your unions. Abide by the current collective bargaining agreement and show people you can be trusted. Your request for CONCESSIONS are dead with this working group, go EARN your pay but not off the backs of the hard working men and women on the front lines. After a major hurricane hit the gulf, oil continues to go down. All indications are it will continue down. So get off your butts and lead and manage!
 
Frontier Airlines reported one of the worst operating losses in the commercial airline industry for the second quarter of 2008, and came in second for the highest fuel expenses than any other low-cost carrier, according to Bureau and Transportation Statistics data released Monday.
The Denver-based airline — operating under Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection — logged a 12.2 percent operating loss in the second quarter — or $44 million — down from a profit of 0.5 percent in the second quarter in 2007.
Frontier’s loss ranked the airline No. 5 among seven low-cost carriers.
Low-cost rival Southwest Airlines reported a 7.2 percent operating profit — or $205 million — in the second quarter, down from a 12 percent profit during the same time in 2007.
Denver’s largest carrier, United Airlines, reported a 4.2 percent loss — or $223 million — compared to a 10 percent profit in the second quarter of 2007.
To boost profits, most U.S. carriers have implemented fees for checking luggage. In the second quarter, excess baggage fees brought the industry $182.6 million, up from $122 million in the first quarter and $113 million in the second quarter of last year.
The airlines began charging for checked baggage earlier this year in the face of increased fuel costs.
Frontier reported 42 percent of its operating costs went to fuel expenses in the second quarter. Frontier’s code share partner, AirTran Airways, spent 49.1 percent of its operating costs on fuel.
Southwest Airlines, known for its strategic fuel hedging program, reported that 35.5 percent of its operating costs were spent on fuel.
United Airlines spent 33 percent of its operating budget on fuel — the highest of all major carriers. US Airways spent the least at 27.8 percent.






Keep in mind Frontier could not hedge because they were in bankruptcy. So they are doing better than Airtran who did hedge fuel, just not well.
 
As of 1543 on 9/15/08 oil is trading at $94.70 a barrel. It may go below $90 a barrel by weeks end. If one pilot in AirTran colors is DUMB enough to fall for the lies that AirTran management is feeding us, then you are a TOTAL FOOL! When I get in the cockpit, please don't make a bigger fool of yourself by justifying the concession talks this management team is trying to scare everyone into accepting! AirTran management has NO BUSINESS PLAN! They showed their hand in Chicago and Milwaukee and lost badly! Is there a white knight coming to save them, I don't know. But not one pilot should give back one cent to these people who have NO Business plan.
Oh by the way, for you kool aid drinkers that will make a fool of yourself and say how do I know, don't be so foolish....OPEN YOUR DAMN EYES! Selling airplanes to raise cash is not a business plan!
 
Just giving an example of the best management money can buy. As a furloughed guy I say not one red cent. Any contract must be better than TA2 that was voted down. Like was said before, if this company fails it is not because of employee costs or the fact that the front line employees did not try to make the company successful.
 
Just giving an example of the best management money can buy. As a furloughed guy I say not one red cent. Any contract must be better than TA2 that was voted down. Like was said before, if this company fails it is not because of employee costs or the fact that the front line employees did not try to make the company successful.
Hey bud, my heart goes out to you! I truely hope that you are able to find a better opportunity in the near future. We have Captains selfishly flying in the right seat because we are short First officers! But we just furloughed 169 pilots? I have no respect for these individuals. They will try to justify to the world why they are doing what they are doing, but it is plain wrong!

Hold your head up high and hang in there!
 
AirTran management FAILED with the ATA deal in Chicago, then FAILED with the MIDWEST deal in MKE, and FAILED to resolve a CBA with their pilots union.



AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with SWA on the ATA deal....

AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with NWA ..err I mean TPG on the Midwest deal....

But AT mgmt HAS FAILED to foster a nice company culture, create diversified income receivables and failed to resolve a CBA with it's pilots.

My point is you cannot blame AT mgmt for ATA and MW deal.... AT vs SWA and AT vs NWA/TPG, well I can tell you who will win that battle EVERY TIME.
 
AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with SWA on the ATA deal....

AT mgmt on THEIR BEST DAY could not have messed with NWA ..err I mean TPG on the Midwest deal....

But AT mgmt HAS FAILED to foster a nice company culture, create diversified income receivables and failed to resolve a CBA with it's pilots.

My point is you cannot blame AT mgmt for ATA and MW deal.... AT vs SWA and AT vs NWA/TPG, well I can tell you who will win that battle EVERY TIME.
Yes you can blame AirTran management. AirTran management played around and was trying to be cheap. AirTran could have completed the deal with ATA long before ATA went into bankruptcy, but their arrogance and being cheap allowed them to be outplayed. They didn't think Southwest would jump in the game. But that goes to show you how arrogant these people are. They let their deal go to the courts and they lost there. Go back and do a search and you will find that the ATA deal was inked long before bankruptcy. Why did they let it go into bankruptcy, because they were hoping to get something on the cheap! That's the way things work at AirTran. As far Northwest, you are wrong again. Airtran was willing to pay over $400 million dollars on their last offer for Midwest. Well if they had not been arrogant, they would have tried to close the Midwest deal prior to Northwest coming out of bankruptcy. If Midwest and a MKE hub was so vital to their business plan, they would have not nickel and dimed the deal and gone in and made a better offer before Northwest came out of bankruptcy and trumped them again! (Keep in mind Northwest could not play in the game while in bankruptcy, I saw this coming why couldn't these guys who earn all their bonus' see it coming) Again this managements arrogance has caused them to FAIL and short of selling airplanes to raise cash, they have no business plan. That is why this company is where it is today. Bottom line, sometimes you have to PAY TO PLAY if you want to be a real player in this industry! NO CONCESSIONS PERIOD!

Oil closed today 9/15/08 at $94.02 a barrel!
 
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Yes you can blame AirTran management. AirTran management played around and was trying to be cheap. AirTran could have completed the deal with ATA long before ATA went into bankruptcy, but their arrogance and being cheap allowed them to be outplayed. They didn't think Southwest would jump in the game. But that goes to show you how arrogant these people are. They let their deal go to the courts and they lost there. Go back and do a search and you will find that the ATA deal was inked long before bankruptcy. Why did they let it go into bankruptcy, because they were hoping to get something on the cheap! That's the way things work at AirTran.
Understood.... Agreed! BUT if AT mgmt countered the offer, don't you think SWA(who wanted to expand MDW service) would have made a better deal? I believe that AT tried to get the cheapest deal possible BUT once SWA got involved it was over. AT doesn't have deep pockets...hence the cheapness....

Still, please do not accept concessions!



As far Northwest, you are wrong again. Airtran was willing to pay over $400 million dollars on their last offer for Midwest. Well if they had not been arrogant, they would have tried to close the Midwest deal prior to Northwest coming out of bankruptcy. If Midwest and a MKE hub was so vital to their business plan, they would have not nickel and dimed the deal and gone in and made a better offer before Northwest came out of bankruptcy and trumped them again! (Keep in mind Northwest could not play in the game while in bankruptcy, I saw this coming why couldn't these guys who earn all their bonus' see it coming) Again this managements arrogance has caused them to FAIL and short of selling airplanes to raise cash, they have no business plan. That is why this company is where it is today. Bottom line, sometimes you have to PAY TO PLAY if you want to be a real player in this industry! NO CONCESSIONS PERIOD!

The deal was made by TPG who wasn't in bankruptcy...but in my opinion was in collusion with NWA. The MidWest board turned down AT for the TPG deal...and according to MW there were at least four more competing deals. The question really becomes...how strong is AT's purchasing power? Can AT really outbid SWA or TPG or NWA?
 
Understood.... Agreed! BUT if AT mgmt countered the offer, don't you think SWA(who wanted to expand MDW service) would have made a better deal? I believe that AT tried to get the cheapest deal possible BUT once SWA got involved it was over. AT doesn't have deep pockets...hence the cheapness....

Still, please do not accept concessions!





The deal was made by TPG who wasn't in bankruptcy...but in my opinion was in collusion with NWA. The MidWest board turned down AT for the TPG deal...and according to MW there were at least four more competing deals. The question really becomes...how strong is AT's purchasing power? Can AT really outbid SWA or TPG or NWA?
I personally will never accept concessions! Southwest only entered the picture because ATA went into bankruptcy and were accepting potential better offers than AirTran's in bankruptcy. America West almost succeeded at buying all of ATA in Bankruptcy and ATA management was all for it, but America West could not workout a deal with all of ATA's lessors and walked away. The key is AirTran had reach an agreement with ATA prior to bankruptcy. This is significant because they could have just closed the deal prior to ATA going into bankruptcy therefore eliminating any chance of a bidding war. That means Southwest would of had no card to play. The end result would of been ATA would have liquidated earlier, and AirTran would of had 14 gates in MDW and more landing slots in LGA and DCA.

Northwest got TPG in the picture only after they exited Ch.11. They would of had no card to play while in Ch.11 and that's why it was so important to close a deal prior to them exiting bankruptcy. IF AirTran had offered the shareholders that kind of money earlier, Tim would of had no choice but to step aside. With the spike in fuel earlier in 2008, couldn't say if this was a blessing not to go through. However, AirTran would be in a position to strengthen two hubs, which they badly need. Also, who is to say they could not have sold those MD-80s and generated some cash. They would still be able to tinker with capacity and probable have better pricing power in MKE.
 
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NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.
 
NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.

Breathe, breathe, breathe
 
...I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines...Nothing more to lose.

Easy there fella. Remember this is a semi-anonymous
forum. What you're saying there is pretty dang provocative.
 
NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.

Breathe, breathe, breathe

Just an observation, but no job is worth what you appear to be going thru.

Life is way too short to be unhappy. If you are that pissed off about work when you are not at work, perhaps some change in scenery would do your life, health, family, etc some good.
 
NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.

I understand your frustraion. You may want to ask the Mods to delete that, though. If someone's head get's caved in, they may just come looking for you.
 
I thought coolside was a "full flaming idiot". Now you have proven me correct. If you are still employed at AirTran , please quit, or at least don't fly to Milwaukee any time soon. My family is going to non rev.
 
NO CONCESSIONS. PERIOD.
and stop picking up open time and flying right seat you f***ing scumbag, mgmt whore, piece of sh*t scab bastards or I promise I am going to cave in someone's g**amn head. I am such a ball of rage that I am going to blow soon and I promise it will make headlines. Fired? Pinched? No problem. Nothing more to lose.


Are you guys kidding me?? We need more people like CoolsidePillow!!! God bless you man!!! I hope that Airtran can get more guys like you, dont listen to the rest of these morons. They are to afraid to fight, they will just spend the rest of their lives on their knees. The only thing I would suggest is to use a shovel for the caving!!!
 
Are you guys kidding me?? We need more people like CoolsidePillow!!! God bless you man!!! I hope that Airtran can get more guys like you, dont listen to the rest of these morons. They are to afraid to fight, they will just spend the rest of their lives on their knees. The only thing I would suggest is to use a shovel for the caving!!!

Don't misunderstand, I support the premise of what he says. I just think that he may not want to set himself up for criminal charges.
 
Are you guys kidding me?? We need more people like CoolsidePillow!!! God bless you man!!! I hope that Airtran can get more guys like you, dont listen to the rest of these morons. They are to afraid to fight, they will just spend the rest of their lives on their knees. The only thing I would suggest is to use a shovel for the caving!!!


You make quite a few assumptions without knowing the facts, and that tells me you yourself may be ignorant or stupid. or both. Check your emotions, they may be your undoing.

By the way, I have not flown with alot of Ca's who are afraid to fight and I haven't talked to many fo's who feel that way either. But threatening to Bash someone's skull on a public forum is a rather stupid act. It is not helpful to the pilot group at AirTran or anyone else for that matter, especially the idiot that posted it.
 
I was reading the letter from Jeff Miller again and started wondering. When he said that we had very profitable years up until 2007, why did we not share in that profitability? Why were we not able to get a new contract? I know the answers, I just thought it was funny that now they want to tie our future to profitability but when we were profitable, they told us to pound sand.

No concessions. Stand together or fall alone.
 
Joke right?

You guys are joking right. You have turned down three T/As have been operating without a contract for a few years now. You are taking a conscession every day that you do not have a contract. Think you are going to get retro. lol. Have you guys even taken a strike vote yet? Didnt think so. You can even take care of simple grievences. Your union is very weak and very underfunded. NPA has to go. You guys dont even have a real long term disability. No real loss of license. Nothing. NPA does not protect its members. The membership is at the mercy and intimidation of management and training department. You will never get a good contract with NPA. Nor will you ever have a real potential for a strike. What are you paying your union dues for? Somone here please answer that question for me. My brother was recently furloughed at Airtran and I real hate to see the anguish he is going through. I understand that the union could have not prevented a furlough. However I stop and think about when he finally gets recalled. To what. An airline that has no union with a company that plays hardball with its employees on a daily basis. Your union should be able to go head to head with Kloski and his like. Problem is that NPA has no backbone and no funding. If your going to pay union dues pay it to a union that will make a diffrence.
 

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