Airtran contract

[flaps30]

any updates on contract progress, its been a year since the last offer?

 

[Secret Squirrel]

We have not had much constructive work on the contract with all the turmoil in the union right now. Negotiating committee members changed with new administration and then almost immediately after they were out of training they resigned because of "differences of opinion" with the BOD or president or something. So the company just the other day called a meeting in front of the mediator and told the union they need a 15% cut in non fuel CASM and any new contract will result in concessions in pay and work rules. New dates for negotiations were set up. It is a real mess. Management is again trying to find money out of the employee pockets to pay for their mistakes.

 

[PinnacleDude]

Sorry to hear that. Went to Airline Pilot Central to compare some rates. For First Officers, pay is already pretty darn bad. For Captains, I see you guys are about the middle of the pack. - OK.

So a 15% paycut is pretty darn tough. Considering inflation, you are already making 8% less than you did when your contract became ammenable a couple of years ago. Who is Mr. Fornaro trying to compete with for wages? Virgin, Miami Air, US Airways East?

I said in another thread that I thought the senior dudes at AirTran would throw the Jr. guys under the bus and you would end up taking needless cuts. I certainly hope that is not the case.

Good luck to you guys P-Dude.

 

[SkiFishFly]

No Concessions!!!!!!!

 

[zawillif]

Management is again trying to find money out of the employee pockets to pay for their mistakes.

Fight the good fight. Management needs to be taught that crew payroll is a fixed cost, and cannot be cut every single time there is a rise in other unrelated costs.

 

[rhino3040]

or cut 169 families!

 

[Ty Webb]

I said in another thread that I thought the senior dudes at AirTran would throw the Jr. guys under the bus and you would end up taking needless cuts..

And we handed you your ass when you said it the first time. :laugh:

Who gives a rat's asss what you think? You're not a part of our Pilot group . . . . so maybe you should be braying about something you have some knowledge about . . . . if such a subject exists.

 

[twepilot]

Ouch!!

Rv

 

[maxblast72]

Oil is down 30% from its high, 15% of domestic airline capacity is being removed from the system over the next 6 weeks, our cash burn rate is alot less now than it was back in early July, and we have as much cash as we ever had (at the end of the 2nd quarter). Most signs are pointing towards profitability in 2009 (or at least break even). Overall pilot CASM is near the bottom of the industry.

Now why would we even consider concessions?

 

[Eagle757shark]

Oil is down 30% from its high, 15% of domestic airline capacity is being removed from the system over the next 6 weeks, our cash burn rate is alot less now than it was back in early July, and we have as much cash as we ever had (at the end of the 2nd quarter). Most signs are pointing towards profitability in 2009 (or at least break even). Overall pilot CASM is near the bottom of the industry.

Now why would we even consider concessions?

Because AirTran still has many in its pilot ranks that are scared! They are living their lives in FEAR and if management comes to them for concessions, they feel like they must do it to keep their jobs! Oil dipped 9/12/08 below $100 dollars a barrel before settling at $100 dollars a barrel and some change.

The problem is you have too many guys who don't educate themselves about this industry and take the word of a management team that has made too many mistakes. AirTran management wants to subsidize air travel off the backs of their employees because they don't have a long term plan for AirTran. The days of living off the backs of employees should be over, but there are too many employees that WILL NOT LEARN and will turn the other cheek just not to come across confrontational.......HOW SAD!

NO CONCESSIONS PERIOD!!!!!!

 

[islandhoper]

NO CONCESSIONS!!!! Let it be heard guys!

 

[FIREMAN]

You are wrong!! With the letter that arrived today the NPA needs to take a strike vote within the next week. They would get an overwhelming YES. Perhaps 5 years ago the attitude that you describe existed, but not today. “We are mad as HE!! And are not going to take it anymore”

 

[BSkin]

You are wrong!! With the letter that arrived today the NPA needs to take a strike vote within the next week. They would get an overwhelming YES. Perhaps 5 years ago the attitude that you describe existed, but not today. “We are mad as HE!! And are not going to take it anymore”

What is the content of this letter that you're referring to? I'm ready for a fight! This industry $ucks anyways!

 

[Captain Jeff]

I think the media needs to be included. It has always seemed like AT management treats the pilots like a battered wife..... IE: "if you tell anyone it will get worse." This place sucks. (yea mesa might still be #1), but this is chithole is catching up. It has to end, one way or the other.

 

[Eagle757shark]

You are wrong!! With the letter that arrived today the NPA needs to take a strike vote within the next week. They would get an overwhelming YES. Perhaps 5 years ago the attitude that you describe existed, but not today. “We are mad as HE!! And are not going to take it anymore”

Sorry FIREMAN, I feel your pain and want to believe that this pilot group will do the right thing. However, I believe this pilot group talks and complains among each other like PIT BULLS but their actions are like KITTENS! If it came to really going out on strike, this group would implode. The facts on day to day operations prove that. This group is still too divided. There are many RATS in our ranks....PERIOD!

 

[CoolSidePillow]

Unfortunately I have talked to many captains who have said that they feel that they will never make the kind of money they make now ever again. That may hurt a strike vote. I do not see why ALL FOs would not strike. We would lose more if we take concessions.

 

[Old Crow]

At the wage an FO makes at Airtran, a concession is not an option.
Is there an Idiot Manager's school that I missed somewhere. How did SoWest seem to skirt that school?
Oh, the letter to my wife today... she just laughed.

 

[wood pecker]

Can the furloughed pilots vote? If it is no then that was a pretty clever way to eliminate 170 no votes.

Also how are the lines block credit for Oct?

If every $1 fuel increase results in $10 million increase cost then should every $1 decrease save $10 million? = no concessions.

Good luck.

 

[maxblast72]

Can the furloughed pilots vote? If it is no then that was a pretty clever way to eliminate 170 no votes.

Also how are the lines block credit for Oct?

If every $1 fuel increase results in $10 million increase cost then should every $1 decrease save $10 million? = no concessions.

Good luck.

B717 October LVI is about 85. Still have about 75 reserve lines on the CA side. Total block hours for October 2008 on the 717 increased about 10% compared with September 2008 (back up to about 26,000 hrs).

 

[FIREMAN]

B737 LVI 76.19 4 CDO, 33 Build-up,54 RES. Not sure where to find total block. But the LVI * hard lines is 16361.

 

[Kharma Police]

The whole insulting premise of the letter is that the union told the company to f-off on concessions (rightfully so, I might add). Since the company didn't get the response from the union they wanted, they resort to their original employee relations play book of "How to Manage by Fear and Intimidation" written by Frank Lorenzo. They think they see a fractured union, but this kind of B.S. is only bringing us together. Remember, "MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME, AND I TELL IT WHAT TO SAY MOTHER F'ers!"

 

[maxblast72]

B737 LVI 76.19 4 CDO, 33 Build-up,54 RES. Not sure where to find total block. But the LVI * hard lines is 16361.

To find the total block hours for each airplane, look on the last page on the bid pack pairing link for the particular aircraft in FLICA. Total block for 737 for October was 15,768 or about or about 7% higher than September. Total block for 717 for October was 26,289 or about 12% higher than September.

 

[RIDETHELIGHTING]

The lvi for B737 fo was around 82 a lot higher then the CA.

 

[daytripperyay]

At the wage an FO makes at Airtran, a concession is not an option.
Is there an Idiot Manager's school that I missed somewhere. How did SoWest seem to skirt that school?
Oh, the letter to my wife today... she just laughed.

Was the airtran letter addressed to your wife? Just got mine today, it was addressed to me. . not my husband!

 

[j41driver]

What is the content of this letter that you're referring to? I'm ready for a fight! This industry $ucks anyways!

I don't have it to cut/paste but it's on the NPA e-Weekly email from yesterday and also on the NPA website under the Negotiation Committee page.

Same old stuff...

NO CONCESSIONS!!

 

[Lear70]

Remember, "MY UNION SPEAKS FOR ME, AND I TELL IT WHAT TO SAY MOTHER F'ers!"

That needs to be kit bag sticker...

Was the airtran letter addressed to your wife? Just got mine today, it was addressed to me. . not my husband!

I think they all were. This is the kind of dirty, underhanded tactics that management will use to scare you / coerce you / intimidate you into accepting their proposal.

There's probably quite a few discussions going on in AirTran households across the country right now from scared spouses where there is only one income supporting them. It's an old ploy, scare the spouses who can coerce their significant others to take the cuts to "keep their job".

This company is NOT in the dire financial straits they'd like people to believe. Making money hand over fist? Of course not. On the ropes? Hardly.

Note to management: why don't you manage your revenue instead of CONTINUING to attack your employees?

WWCJD

 

[Citrus531]

I know these scaled back fall schedules are like watching paint dry on good wx days in Atlanta...from 265 departures a day to 215 on the less busy days of Tues/Sat...

I agree Lear; manage revenue and leave the other folks alone....seeing the 717's/737's leave is sad but like you said we're not sinking like they make it sound...I swear the stuff we hear sometimes makes it sound like we're going away.

 

[400ADude]

I think the media needs to be included. It has always seemed like AT management treats the pilots like a battered wife..... IE: "if you tell anyone it will get worse." This place sucks. (yea mesa might still be #1), but this is chithole is catching up. It has to end, one way or the other.

Yes it does.

 

[carl p]

Hell No to Concessions!

 

[SkiFishFly]

My union speaks for me!

When do we take a strike vote?!

Are we ready to ask the NMB to release us when we meet with the company in Oct?????