Airlines where Pilots Clean the Cabin

[Crossky]

I am not an airline pilot, but I can actually see the poster's point. Why stop with demanding the pilots clean the cabin? The pilots can also do the lav service, ticket sales, refuel. I mean you are getting paid the big bucks ( sarcasm intended) to just fly the plane, and the pay is getting higher and higher, so why not help out the other workers do thier jobs.

What would a F/A say if you asked a F/A for help doing your job. " Hey Trish, if your done with the coffee and soda, come up here and enter the new route clearance in the FMS. Or " Hey Trish, I have to clean the cabin, get the flight release and weather at our destination.

I can tell you're not an airline pilot. The pilots don't have time to anything extra but help clean the cabin, many times we have to run to ops to get paperwork, and have to get back in the flightdeck to make the turn happen. The main reasons to help clean are not to foster teamwork (although it is an important one), it's (1) to get the cabin ready quicker for pax to board and (2) to help the company save operating costs, and ensure profitability and survival. At my regional most of ours are 50 seaters and we have no cleaners except at overnights, besides if we let the FA's always clean we would be waiting on them at A/C swaps, schedule breaks, overnights, and the end of trips. Be good to your FA's and they will be good to you (usually).

My biggest bone to pick with you is your big bucks and higer and higer pay bs comment. If you were an airline pilot, you would know that we the vast majority of us have taken substantial pay and benefit cuts since (and before) the attacks of 9/11. My family is struggling to not use credit cards to fill the gas tank and buy groceries; your copilot flying your RJ dodging storms and landing in fog is making $30 K a year, and your Captain is lucky to gross over $60 K. At most of the big airlines you like to buy internet tickets on, pilots make make at least $30 to $60 K per year less than they used to, and retirement benefits and companys pensions are drastically reduced.

Finally, FA's and everyone else know that the education and experience requirements of our jobs are vastly different than theirs. At least most all of them do, and those who don't are educated quickly by an empty leg jumpseat ride. (we don't do that do we?)

Happy Easter everyone. Check 'ole J.C. out, he's worth your effort.

 

[vtpilotmj]

This subject makes my blood boil. We are professionals, we FLY airplanes, not CLEAN airplanes. Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms? Pilots who work for companies who have this type of culture are not only hurting their own careers, they are hurting the rest of our careers and I take it personally. JetBlue and their "we are all equal" attitude is complete BS. I don't give a crap if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags. It's for publicity only. I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession.

 

[-9Capt]

This subject makes my blood boil. We are professionals, we FLY airplanes, not CLEAN airplanes. Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms? Pilots who work for companies who have this type of culture are not only hurting their own careers, they are hurting the rest of our careers and I take it personally. JetBlue and their "we are all equal" attitude is complete BS. I don't give a crap if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags. It's for publicity only. I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession.

Those are some pretty strong views for someone with a whopping 2K hrs.

 

[IB6 UB9]

This subject makes my blood boil. We are professionals, we FLY airplanes, not CLEAN airplanes. Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms? Pilots who work for companies who have this type of culture are not only hurting their own careers, they are hurting the rest of our careers and I take it personally. JetBlue and their "we are all equal" attitude is complete BS. I don't give a crap if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags. It's for publicity only. I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession.

Looks like you have a wealth of experience to back up your statements. Back to school kiddo.

 

[FlyGuppies]

This subject makes my blood boil. We are professionals, we FLY airplanes, not CLEAN airplanes. Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms? Pilots who work for companies who have this type of culture are not only hurting their own careers, they are hurting the rest of our careers and I take it personally. JetBlue and their "we are all equal" attitude is complete BS. I don't give a crap if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags. It's for publicity only. I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession.

vtpilotmj

Do us a favor, don't apply to JBlue, SWA, or any one else. With that attitude, I wouldn't enjoy flying with you!

 

[Gulfstream 200]

This subject makes my blood boil. We are professionals, we FLY airplanes, not CLEAN airplanes. Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms? Pilots who work for companies who have this type of culture are not only hurting their own careers, they are hurting the rest of our careers and I take it personally. JetBlue and their "we are all equal" attitude is complete BS. I don't give a crap if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags. It's for publicity only. I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession.

Professionals do what it takes to get the job done.

But yes, I suppose you would rather be one of those "I aint doin that $hit" professional pilots who would rather collect unemployment.

Jetblue, Southwest, etc...have created thier own company culture - If you dont like it - dont apply. Maybe you can just apply at UAL, DAL, USAIR etc.....oh....nevermind...

Whats so wrong with pitching in and helping if you have your tasks done and have time to kill?...

Ya know, you might just get your uptight a$$ LAID (wow really!!) if you went back and rapped with those cute F/A's instead of sitting up front bitchin' about the next contract and the sellouts at the successful airlines. (who, by the way, all make more money than you)

350K/yr at UAL is long gone man, adapt or die. Its your choice.

jeeesus...your profile says you fly an EMB145!! How much you make doing that? My guess is the non-professional CLEANING your EMB145 makes more coin than you -- you tool!!! -- but you are the "professional"...yup.

...

 

[Chest Rockwell]

G200,

Bravo, well said.

 

[chum2]

Agree with G200....

Part of being "professional" is having a job to be professional. Another part of being a professional is taking care of your people and your equipment. Pitching in for extra unskilled "labor" is part of some cultures. (who just happen to be the successful ones) If getting a quicker turnaound to squeak the profit margin and having a few less cleaners means adding another qualified pilot or two to the payroll, then I'd say we're helping out the cause of some others....If this isn't your gig, then don't apply to companies that maintain those values....

I think we're all worth a lot of money given the lives and responsibility in our charge, but the profits are not there to maintain our desired lifestyle and to keep a reasonable price to attract the public to fly our companies.

Since I only have a fraction of the hours of some in this forum and was a military guy where I had numerous other jobs than flying, who did what we had to do to accomplish our mission, maybe that's why I'm not all that touchy about taking the trash out. It's a free country, but everything comes at a price....Just happy to have a job where I get to fly for a living...

 

[Dizel8]

"Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms?"

"I don't give a crap, if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags."

Yes, he does, but since that didn't work, then you don't care!

"It's for publicity only."

Seen him working his tail off, even when everyone had gone home.

"I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession."

Okay, when let me ask you a few things, before you realize how lonely your high horse will be. How about B-scale, how about giving up a pension, how about screwing retirees, how about accepting huge paycuts, how about flying overtime when people are on furlough,how about accepting 19K/yr to fly a jet, how about buying a type etc.etc.

All of the above was, is or will be again. So you have a hard choice to make, stay on the high horse and be disappointed or realize that the world is not what it used to be!

 

[Fly2Scuba]

I can see where vtpilotmj is coming from, though not in is such strong terms. Here's a good analogy. I had LASIK surgery a short while back. Now I paid a good sum of money to provide the best chance at a quality result. At the particular facility I went to, you could view procedures in progress. If I had seen the surgeon clean the waiting room in between procedures, I would have gone somewhere else. Shouldn't we expect positions that require upmost safety to stick to the program?

With all that said, if I think the FA is decent, I'll help them on the overnight aircraft cleaning which gets us all to the hotel sooner. If a turn is short enough that the FA has to rush through the cleaning on their own, then there probably isn't much time to prepare the cockpit. An even better way to foster the well being of our profession would be to prepare the cockpit while the FA is cleaning and jump out and personally greet and welcome aboard each passenger once boarding occurs. This would contribute to the safety of the pilot because the Captain now has time to also size up each passenger and possibly identify potential problems (for example - drunk guy or Syrian scumbag).

 

[Dizel8]

"If I had seen the surgeon clean the waiting room in between procedures"

Or would that tell you, that this was a serious dude, who wanted to makes sure everything was perfect for your visit and your surgery.

But I suppose, seeing a min wage cleaner made you feel better about how much Doc cared!

Razzing you a bit, but perhaps you see my point!

Secondly, the passengers are normally somewhat impressed, since they conceive us a team work airline and more importantly perhaps, many of them have had the pleasure of watching the delays grow, while waiting for cleaners at other places.

Do you think your Doc would arrange magazines and perhaps even grab a piece of paper of the floor. Well, if it was his place, he probably would and if he didn't, maybe you would be much less impressed, since why would you have your eyes done at a shabby place.

 

[Fly2Scuba]

"If I had seen the surgeon clean the waiting room in between procedures"

Or would that tell you, that this was a serious dude, who wanted to makes sure everything was perfect for your visit and your surgery.

But I suppose, seeing a min wage cleaner made you feel better about how much Doc cared!

Razzing you a bit, but perhaps you see my point!

Secondly, the passengers are normally somewhat impressed, since they conceive us a team work airline and more importantly perhaps, many of them have had the pleasure of watching the delays grow, while waiting for cleaners at other places.

Do you think your Doc would arrange magazines and perhaps even grab a piece of paper of the floor. Well, if it was his place, he probably would and if he didn't, maybe you would be much less impressed, since why would you have your eyes done at a shabby place.

Sorry, I don't see it the same way, in fact my vision now is 20/15...uncorrected! From the standpoint of safety and knowing that fatigue is detrimental to such cause, I would rather have my doctor meditating in total relaxation between procedures then scurrying around doing other oddball jobs to save on hiring extra staff.

Once again, if a Captain can perform most preflight duties before boarding and then greet and size up each individual boarding the flight, then the security of the flight has increased. This again can be compared to my LASIK experience, because the surgeon spent 5 minutes talking to me just prior to us entering the operating room which helped calm and reassure me. As an FO, I flew with one Captain who prepared the cockpit, then greeted the boarding passengers in the jetway (our cabin entrance is very small) and I may start doing it myself the more thought put into it.

 

[Dizel8]

Here is the problem I see. This ins't a this or that issue, meaning that what I do to assist the crew, does not detract from the job I do as a safety conscentious pilot and certainly safety is the overriding concern.

Since the flight plan is sent to the a/c in adeaqute time, that allows me time to peruse it, note theghlights and query dispatch in case of any perceived issues.
Loading the "box" can be done in minimun time, if one knows how to use it.

While you may not believe it, I can greet every single deplaning passenger, help the F/A's clean and greet every single passenger getting back on. Further, I trust my excellently trained and ultra competent F/O's in getting the clearances via acars, run the performance, wt and balance numbers etc.

As has been mentioned, I think most of us are smart enough to realize, that other functions take predence over assisting the F/A's, be they MX, wx, fuel or all the other funny stuff we deal with on a daily basis. Notwithstanding a few misguided F/A's, they do to.

Helping out the F/A's makes a lot of sense, not just from a team perspective, but if you help the F/A's and make their job a bit easier, they might treat the customer better, which hopefully brings them back to your carrier and hence ensures your paycheck. As much as I hate to say it, most of a pilots finest work takes place behind a closed door and the customer really will never know about it, this is as it should be and while unfair, you are judged mostly on your landing, yep, it always comes down to those few inches, both in aviation and in love

Since the F/A's have the greatest influence on the customers flight exeperience, why not try to assist them, so that they are in a great mood. If you do not make too many mistakes, you will still be the one basking in "glory" as the passengers thanks your for a great flight.

No jetblue pilot I know, would ever let cleaning the cabin interfere with their real duties nor would the company condone or allow this to happen,( or ever question the pilot) but the great majority of them takes tremendous pride in their place of work and realize for better or worse, that their paycheck is dependent upon making the passenger chose their airline over the next one. If crossing a seat belt or two is what that takes, then I think that is a small price to pay!

Ohh, and don't forget that thing that G200 mentioned

P.S. Ask most freight dogs for smaller companies, who exactly loads the freight and what a great flying job they do anyway. Heck, the F/E and I loaded a DC-8 with the assistance of a one armed man, but that is a completely separate story.

 

[jetblue320]

This subject makes my blood boil. We are professionals, we FLY airplanes, not CLEAN airplanes. Does an executive clean the company's bathrooms? Pilots who work for companies who have this type of culture are not only hurting their own careers, they are hurting the rest of our careers and I take it personally. JetBlue and their "we are all equal" attitude is complete BS. I don't give a crap if Needleman cleans the bathrooms or throws bags. It's for publicity only. I feel pilots who defend this are sellouts. Sellouts to themselves, sellouts to other professional pilots, and sellouts to the whole profession.

You would probably step "over" your own kid's diaper if it was on your way to the kitchen too, wouldn't you? Admit it, you're just a slob!

Do you wipe your own butt when you are finished and then flush? Probably not.

I can't wait till I see you across the interview table " Mr. I Just Fly The Planes"


Good luck in life.

 

[Dave Siegel]

JetBlue Shutdown Checklist



Parking Brake............"Set"

Start Levers............"Cut Off"

Beacon................."Off"

Seat Belt Sign.........."Off"

Laytex Gloves.........."ON"

Toilet Brush..........."Ready"


"Shut Down Checklist Complete"


Sorry coulden't Resist. You Jetblue Nancy boys crack me up.

I also heard that the Smurfs have been taking the latex gloves to the hotel as well.