Air Wisconsin

[av8er23]

I just returned from ATW and the director of training among others told us the same info. Two classes a month for awhile (not sure how many per class), transition the rest of the 146 guys over, look at attrition, and continue hiring and running classes as needed. If you get in now you won't sit reserve long. How long the upgrade will be depends on many factors but it's not a bad place to sit as an FO with a bit of seniority.

Sounds good. Sorry for the noob question but what is ATW?

 

[SpatialD]

I don't work at AWAC (Air Wisconsin Airlines Corporation) - yet - but I'm thinking maybe... Appleton, WI where the company is based?

 

[av8er23]

Is that a statement or a question?

 

[SpatialD]

Alright - touche.

 

[av8er23]

I was not trying to be a smartass. There is enough of those on this board already. I did not understand what you were trying to ask?

 

[logolight]

That's right. Two classes per month of at least 15 per class. Either April or May 06 the 146 guys go to CRJ training then new hire classes will resume immediately after until at least Aug 06. Reserve right now is at about 3 months but if attrition continues, new hires will hold a line right out of training. Right now, upgrade time is about 2 years and if there's any growth in the near future, my guess is upgrade time could be as short as 18 months. We'll se what happens though.

 

[Crossky]

That's right. Two classes per month of at least 15 per class. Either April or May 06 the 146 guys go to CRJ training then new hire classes will resume immediately after until at least Aug 06. Reserve right now is at about 3 months but if attrition continues, new hires will hold a line right out of training. Right now, upgrade time is about 2 years and if there's any growth in the near future, my guess is upgrade time could be as short as 18 months. We'll se what happens though.

Whoa Nelly, whoa. I started upgrade in early Sept. right at three years, who do you know that's upgrading at about two years, and what are they drinking? NO, upgrade is not about 2 years. Attrition is high yes, but not that high.

 

[SpatialD]

I was not trying to be a smartass. There is enough of those on this board already. I did not understand what you were trying to ask?

On the contrary, I was being the smartass (in a friendly sort of way). Really shouldn't have put a question mark at the end, though.

What I probably should have said was that ATW is the identifier for Appleton, WI, which is the home of Air Wisconsin.

 

[Kenny]

The guys currently in MEM doing their CPT's are at the 3years and 2 months mark. So I'm not sure how that puts upgrade at 2 years or even how it drops to 2 years in the next 2 months.

The training dept has budgeted for 150 upgrades next year so like everything else in aviation don't start cashing that left seat cheque until you're in it.

 

[logolight]

Whoa Nelly, whoa. I started upgrade in early Sept. right at three years, who do you know that's upgrading at about two years, and what are they drinking? NO, upgrade is not about 2 years. Attrition is high yes, but not that high.

A previous poster says he's a Sep 03 hire and is 15 away from upgrade. My buddy is Dec 03 hire and he says he's about 40 from upgrade. That puts upgrade time at just over 2 years. I believe that number will drop shortly.

Also remember that AWAC had pilots on furlough from 01 to about 03. (somewhere in there) So you will see that some of the junior captains had longer upgrade times. The new upgrading FO's were hired after the furloughs were called back in 03 so their upgrade times are shorter. That said, if you look at the seniority list, you'll see the discontinuity of hire dates between the Junior captains and the FO's about to upgrade.

 

[FlyinPiker]

All of the furloughed guys have already had an oppurtunity to upgrade.

Here are your "gaps" in hiring.

OCT 02 Classes...currently in upgrade ( 3 years 2 months..some will still be going in Jan 06 so 3 years 3 months)

(no classes for 3 months due to 328 bye bye announcement)

FEB 03 Class.......One or two out of that group will go in Jan (2 years 11 months) but most will go in Feb 06 ( 3 years) That should be you Avrodriver! Are you actually ready to leave the right seat finally??

(no classes for 6 months due to the actual phasing outy of the 328)

AUG 03 Classes......Most likely a few of these guys will also make the cut for the next award putting them in a Feb 06 class as well ( 2 years 7 months)

(then the hiring spree began)

Heavy heavy hiring began around AUG 03 and pretty much has continued since then. I would expect to see no dramatic drops after that. If we wanted to guess...this is just guessing considering I have no idea who has quit from what classes or if they are actually going to be able to crank out 30 cpts a month ( it's hard to upgrade when you are short on everything)

Sept/Oct 03.....upgrade in March 06 (2 years 6 months)
Oct/Nov 03......upgrade in May 06 ( BAC guys will start training....so 2 years 6 months).

I think it will stick at about 2.5 for a bit and then maybe start heading the other direction but probably not above 3...at least for this wave of catching up we have to do. After that it's anyone's guess, but we've got to start being able to handle what we've got on our plate now if we stand any chance of growth in the future.

Remember Logo....yes there were gaps in hiring, but right after the gaps we started hiring heavy. Not to mention I think they are dreaming if they think they can get 30 thru a month. Can't upgrade f/o's until you have them.

 

[DiverDriver]

And we have been cancelling flights due to no crew lately (probably short of captains). They've been junior manning about every day. I've even heard that they have begun jr manning FOs too since they are trying to upgrade people to relieve the staffing problem.

17 flights in one day xc due to no crew. That's pretty bad. But don't worry. They have a fix it crew assembled in PHL now to be "proactive" in solving problems. Ummm... yah. Proactive. If you're fixing problems AFTER they have happened it's no longer PROACTIVE!

Excuse me, I have to go find a wall to bang my head against now. I haven't heard the squishy sound yet.

 

[Crossky]

A previous poster says he's a Sep 03 hire and is 15 away from upgrade. My buddy is Dec 03 hire and he says he's about 40 from upgrade. That puts upgrade time at just over 2 years. I believe that number will drop shortly.

Also remember that AWAC had pilots on furlough from 01 to about 03. (somewhere in there) So you will see that some of the junior captains had longer upgrade times. The new upgrading FO's were hired after the furloughs were called back in 03 so their upgrade times are shorter. That said, if you look at the seniority list, you'll see the discontinuity of hire dates between the Junior captains and the FO's about to upgrade.

Don't mean to quibble and split hairs (yes I do!) but the furloughees were all back by end of summer '02 just before I was hired in Sept '02.

It's like what Kenny said, you haven't upgraded till you cash the check, check piker's comments, we have enough sunshine blowers areound here anyway. If it gets below 2.5 yrs you let me know and I'll buy you a beer at the JetRock! Also, the 146 pilots coming over after ski season will slow things down a bit.

Peace out, I'm done.

 

[logolight]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to blow smoke up anyone's arse around here. I don't have the up to date facts and numbers but the problem is I'm getting different numbers from different people so there is confusion as to what hire dates are next for upgrade. I'll try to dig more but we all can agree that it's certainly less than 3 years and I think getting shorter. I'll check it out.

 

[Drill Sgt. Dad]

I emailed and faxed my resume. Even called the pilot recruiter, if they are that short handed, I hope they call. I need a job. Afterall I am already trained on the CRJ. What base would I more than likely get? Any CLT base? or PHL? DCA?
anyone Bueler? Logo?