Air France Flight Missing

[JFReservist]

Gonna have to call BS on this one... It's impossible to have lightning without precip/ice, which is what causes the lightning and will give a return on any functioning radar. I'll buy your radar in the Lear did not show a return (it was malfunctioning, no other way) but to suggest there was "not enough precip to give a return" is preposterous. Sorry, but that's Meteorology 101.
RIP to the crew and passengers of this tragedy.

Funny thing is I have been in the same spot as Lear 70... just over Western Africa. There are dry supercells that don't paint many returns. It was an impressive show, and thank God it only played hel! with the HF. We didn't talk to any one from Dakar until we were a hundred miles or so from Braza, keeping the light show off to the left for a couple three/four hours.

As for the AF flight crews, they are some of the most professional out there, and have always been good to us - except when they make position reports in French when you're both on the same approach in Ivory Coast! They are courteous and quick to help in the air and in the hotel bar...

I know they will be missed and hopefully remembered for giving their all to save their ship and charge in a horrible situation. There but by the grace of God...

 

[densoo]

Anyone know if AF flies long haul with a complete rest crew (2 CAs, 2 FOs) vice a partial rest crew (1 CA, 3 FOs)? Some articles are asking if chief CA was at the controls.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/31078505/

http://www.phillyburbs.com/news/new...ncertain-whether-chief-pilot-at-controls.html

 

[Mach 80]

"""There but by the grace of God... """"

I always thought this was a dumb, sort of selfish phrase. So - by the "Grace of God" someone ELSE got killed instead of you? That's some nice Grace from God! Tell it to those families of those on the airplane. It was just bad luck, nothing at all to do with God, if such a thing even exists. The idea of "God" is the bigest hoax mankind has ever played on itself, only because mankind has such hubris that he can't bring himself to believe that death is simply what it is and wants to believe there is some fairy tale after-life.


__________________

 

[Amish RakeFight]

"""There but by the grace of God... """"

I always thought this was a dumb, sort of selfish phrase. So - by the "Grace of God" someone ELSE got killed instead of you? That's some nice Grace from God! Tell it to those families of those on the airplane. It was just bad luck, nothing at all to do with God, if such a thing even exists. The idea of "God" is the bigest hoax mankind has ever played on itself, only because mankind has such hubris that he can't bring himself to believe that death is simply what it is and wants to believe there is some fairy tale after-life.


__________________

I'm "with you" on this one, old man mach.

 

[Club ORD FO]

fox news is reporting that the same flight number had a bomb threat on it a few days prior. hmmmm.......

 

[HA25]

"""There but by the grace of God... """"

I always thought this was a dumb, sort of selfish phrase. So - by the "Grace of God" someone ELSE got killed instead of you? That's some nice Grace from God! Tell it to those families of those on the airplane. It was just bad luck, nothing at all to do with God, if such a thing even exists. The idea of "God" is the bigest hoax mankind has ever played on itself, only because mankind has such hubris that he can't bring himself to believe that death is simply what it is and wants to believe there is some fairy tale after-life.


__________________

Wow, you want some salt to rub into that too??

 

[JFReservist]

"""There but by the grace of God... """"

I always thought this was a dumb, sort of selfish phrase. So - by the "Grace of God" someone ELSE got killed instead of you? That's some nice Grace from God! Tell it to those families of those on the airplane. It was just bad luck, nothing at all to do with God, if such a thing even exists. The idea of "God" is the bigest hoax mankind has ever played on itself, only because mankind has such hubris that he can't bring himself to believe that death is simply what it is and wants to believe there is some fairy tale after-life.

Yup, I used to think the same thing. Suit yourself. You can PM me if you want a true, honest open debate about philosophy, theology and all of the other fun esoteric things in the world. Maybe we'll get a chance to meet and I'll even buy a round and you can explain the hate and vitriol you have over a "fairy tale," I'll explain why my hubris has led me to a logical, scientific and morally satisfying conclusion to the question of origins, meaning, redemption and grace. Until then, fly safe and God Bless.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Surprised no one is talking about the flight control ADIRU seeing as how Quantas had an uncommanded over the limit negative G push over last year and this year the FAA and International Authorities have posted not one, but two, emergency airworthiness directives on the system.

 

[freightdogfred]

I beg to differ. I got hit by lightning really badly a few years back; in a hold into PHL. No echos on radar, at 14,000, night, SAT around 0C. Cloud wasn't taller than 17,000 and lightning damaged the COM2 antenna pretty good.

Well, there was precip around somewhere, mebbe not on your route but it was there. You may not have seen it, but it was there somewhere, no other way. But I'm not here to hi-jack this thread to argue with you and Mister Lear about basic meteorology.

 

[JFReservist]

I'm "with you" on this one, old man mach.

"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried." G.K. Chesterton

Amish, you still haven't taken me up on that offer... Come on, I'm buying...

 

[JFReservist]

Sorry, back to the thread...

Surprised no one is talking about the flight control ADIRU seeing as how Quantas had an uncommanded over the limit negative G push over last year and this year the FAA and International Authorities have posted not one, but two, emergency airworthiness directives on the system.

Never having flown the 'bus, is there a back up to all the magic?

 

[Redmeat]

Surprised no one is talking about the flight control ADIRU seeing as how Quantas had an uncommanded over the limit negative G push over last year and this year the FAA and International Authorities have posted not one, but two, emergency airworthiness directives on the system.

It was one of the first things that was looked at and was ruled-out/put on the back-burner as the AF ac had a different unit manufactured by a different company that used a different software interface than the Quantas ac.

 

[Whine Lover]

.......

 

[Lear70]

"""There but by the grace of God... """"

I always thought this was a dumb, sort of selfish phrase. So - by the "Grace of God" someone ELSE got killed instead of you? That's some nice Grace from God! Tell it to those families of those on the airplane. It was just bad luck, nothing at all to do with God, if such a thing even exists. The idea of "God" is the bigest hoax mankind has ever played on itself, only because mankind has such hubris that he can't bring himself to believe that death is simply what it is and wants to believe there is some fairy tale after-life.


__________________

I've always thought that was one of the best quotes relating to our jobs that existed, without examining the moral implications.

We say that not in pointing out our luck for not being involved in that accident, but to point out that, at the end of the day, sometimes it is just pure, dumb luck that it WASN'T us in that situation. There are several accidents that have been attributed mostly to "wrong place wrong time", and that's what this is talking about.

Without getting into a discussion or God or ideology, this accident is very appropo for this phrase. If not for luck, Grace of God, whatever you want to call it, any one of us could very easily be in a situation not of our own making from which we have no way to control whether we live or die. It could happen in the air, it could happen on the ground, you just never know what life will throw at you or when death comes knocking at your door...

 

[poppi]

Well, there was precip around somewhere, mebbe not on your route but it was there. You may not have seen it, but it was there somewhere, no other way. But I'm not here to hi-jack this thread to argue with you and Mister Lear about basic meteorology.

Flying around in Saudi Arabia you see dry lighting with normal frequency. Incredible amount of lighting cloud to cloud and cloud to ground and yet no precip.
Lighting has nothing to do w/ precip. It has to do with a difference in potential from the cloud and ground which is caused by static.

What is dry lightning?
Dry lightning is lightning that occurs without rain nearby. The NOAA Storm Prediction Center routinely forecasts dry lightning because this kind is more likely to cause forest fires.