Air France Flight Missing

[ACL65PILOT]

probably will be the most intensely investigated aircraft accident in history. The recovered parts of the Titanic from that depth so they should be able to get the recorders.

Actually the HMS Titanic is in water about half the depth of some of the wreckage.

 

[OneBadLT123]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090604/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane

Interesting part of the article. No idea how true it is though...

The messages detail a series of failures that end with its systems shutting down, suggesting the plane broke apart in the sky, according to an aviation industry official with knowledge of the investigation who spoke on condition of anonymity because he was not authorized to discuss the crash

France's accident investigation agency said only two findings have been established so far: One is that the series of automatic messages sent from Flight 447 gave conflicting signals about the plane's speed; the other is that the flight path went through dangerously stormy weather


The last message from the pilot was a manual signal at 11 p.m. local time Sunday saying he was flying through an area of black, electrically charged cumulonimbus clouds that come with violent winds and lightning. The automated messages that followed suggest the plane broke apart in the sky, according to the aviation industry official.
At 11:10 p.m., a cascade of problems began: the autopilot had disengaged, a key computer system switched to alternative power, and controls needed to keep the plane stable had been damaged. An alarm sounded indicating the deterioration of flight systems. Then, systems for monitoring air speed, altitude and direction failed. Then controls over the main flight computer and wing spoilers failed as well. At 11:14 p.m., a final automatic message signaled loss of cabin pressure and complete electrical failure as the plane was breaking apart.
Patrick Smith, a U.S. airline pilot and aviation analyst, said the failures could have begun with a loss of electrical power, possibly as the result of an extremely strong lightning bolt.
"What jumps out at me is the reported failure of both the primary and standby instruments," Smith said. "From that point the plane basically becomes unflyable."
"If they lost control and started spiraling down into a storm cell, the plane would begin disintegrating, the engines and wings would start coming off, the cabin would begin falling apart," he said.
The pilot of a Spanish airliner flying nearby at the time reported seeing a bright flash of white light plunging to the ocean, said Angel del Rio, spokesman for the Spanish airline Air Comet.
"Suddenly, off in the distance, we observed a strong and bright flash of white light that took a downward and vertical trajectory and vanished in six seconds," the pilot wrote in his report, del Rio told the AP. The pilot of the Spanish plane, en route from Lima, Peru to Madrid, said he heard no emergency calls.

 

[poppi]

The New York Times reported that Airbus (EAD.PA) issued a warning on Thursday to airlines that pilots should follow "established procedures" if they suspect airspeed indicators are not working
The New York Times said Airbus told clients "there was inconsistency between the different measured airspeeds" in the Airbus 330 that crashed, though the company noted it was not prejudging the investigation's outcome

 

[poppi]

at 0210Z : from bottom to top :
- AUTO FLT AP OFF
-F/CTL ALTN LAW
- FlAG ON Capt PFD
- FLAG ON F/O PFD
- AUTO FLT ATHR OFF
- NAV TCAS FAULT
- FLAG ON CAPT PFD
- FLAG ON F/O PFD
- F/CTL RUD TRV LIM FAULT
- EFCS2...1..EFCS1...AFS
- EFCS1...X2..EFCS2X

at 0211Z :
- FLAG ON CAPT PFD
- FLAG ON F/O PFD

at 0212z:
- NAV ADR DISAGREE
- ISIS ....ISIS
- IR2...1,EFCS1X, IR1, IR3

at 0213Z :
- F/CTL PRIM1 FAULT
- F/CTL SEC1 FAULT
- AFS 1 FMGEC1

 

[Stifler's Mom]

On Wednesday, searchers recovered two debris fields and had identified the wreckage, including an airplane seat and an orange float as coming from Flight 447. Officials now say that none of the debris recovered is from the missing plane.

I don't know what to think from all of the news reports. Everybody is speaking on a condition of anonymity, and contradicting what info has already been released.

 

[OneBadLT123]

Yeah this just came out on CNN as of now. This story is just becoming werid. Dont know who, or what to trust anymore...

http://www.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/americas/06/04/plane.crash/index.html

The Brazilian air force said that debris picked up Thursday near where officials believe Air France Flight 447 crashed Monday into the Atlantic Ocean was not from the plane.

"It has been verified that the material did not belong to the plane," Brigadier Ramon Borges Cardoso told reporters in Recife about the material recovered Thursday. "It is a pallet of wood that is utilized for transport. It is used in planes, but on this flight to Paris, there was no wooden pallet."

He added that oil slicks seen on the ocean were not from the plane, either, and that the quantity of oil exceeded the amount the plane would have carried.

"No material from the airplane was picked up," he said.
The announcement left open the question of whether other debris that had not yet been plucked from the ocean might be from the plane.

On Wednesday, searchers recovered two debris fields and had identified the wreckage, including an airplane seat and an orange float as coming from Flight 447. Officials now say that none of the debris recovered is from the missing plane.

So after all this talk of debis being plucked so far, none of it aparently is part of the bus. Where would such an oil slick come from? Must be one hell of a leaking ship, or something...

 

[LowlyPropCapt]

Bizzare... All of this is very strange.

 

[Erlanger]

The BBC initially reported the story of the wreckage as to not being from AF447 and only CNN has picked it up.

 

[SonicPig]

at 0210Z : from bottom to top :
- AUTO FLT AP OFF
-F/CTL ALTN LAW
- FlAG ON Capt PFD
- FLAG ON F/O PFD
- AUTO FLT ATHR OFF
- NAV TCAS FAULT
- FLAG ON CAPT PFD
- FLAG ON F/O PFD
- F/CTL RUD TRV LIM FAULT
- EFCS2...1..EFCS1...AFS
- EFCS1...X2..EFCS2X

at 0211Z :
- FLAG ON CAPT PFD
- FLAG ON F/O PFD

at 0212z:
- NAV ADR DISAGREE
- ISIS ....ISIS
- IR2...1,EFCS1X, IR1, IR3

at 0213Z :
- F/CTL PRIM1 FAULT
- F/CTL SEC1 FAULT
- AFS 1 FMGEC1

That's ugly on a CAVU day in CONUS ops. Avionics fire????

The Pig.

 

[Erlanger]

This story has some very interesting info.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane

 

[StaySeated]

Iced over probes. GMAFB, I have read a number of different ECAM warnings but not one of them were related to probe heat. Why can't we have an investigation like they used to do it back in the day. Everyone STFU, and wait until the pro's actually get a chance to analyze the facts.

 

[scoreboardII]

probably will be the most intensely investigated aircraft accident in history. .

I predict not.

They "find debris" now they have "found nothing".

Odd? No.

They don't want to find the black box on this one. Airbus and AF both want this to be end of story. They don't want to know why a modern jet can fall apart crossing the ocean.

 

[embpic1]

I predict not.

They "find debris" now they have "found nothing".

Odd? No.

They don't want to find the black box on this one. Airbus and AF both want this to be end of story. They don't want to know why a modern jet can fall apart crossing the ocean.

I don't know about AF, but you can bet Airbus secretly is praying the black boxes are never recovered.

 

[MCDU]

I bet the airplane went into alternate law due to the severe upset entering the storm. It went to abnormal attitude law that does not give you protections in pitch and bank angle. This happens when the airplane gets into such an upset that the airplane thinks it entered such an unusual attitude which should not have happened. This Abnormal law is when the airplane exceeds parameters. After recovery the plane would be in Alternate law without bank or pitch protections because the airplane sees a fault, ( it should never have exceeded certain bank or pitch protections).

(Plane would not have gone to direct law with gear extension).

M

 

[poppi]

FROM : AIRBUS FLIGHT SAFETY DEPARTMENT TOULOUSE
ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX - ACCIDENT INFORMATION TELEX
SUBJECT: AF447 ACCIDENT INTO THE ATLANTIC OCEAN
OUR REF: AF447 AIT 2 June 4th 2009
PREVIOUS REF:
- Ref 1: AF447 AIT 1 dated June 1st 2009

This AIT is an update of the previous AIT n°1 concerning the AF447
accident into the Atlantic ocean on June 1st, 2009.
In line with the ICAO Annex 13 recommendations, the French
investigation Board - BEA (Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses) is
leading the technical investigation, with accredited representatives
from the Brazilian Investigation Board and US NTSB, with Airbus
providing technical support.
The following data have been approved for release by the French BEA.
The route of the aircraft was crossing a tropical multicell
convective area at the time of the accident.
Failure/ maintenance messages have been transmitted automatically
from the aircraft to the airline maintenance center.
The above mentionned messages indicate that there was inconsistency
between the different measured airspeeds. Therefore and without
prejudging the final outcome of the investigation, the data available
leads Airbus to remind operators what are the applicable operational
recommendations in case of unreliable airspeed indication.
The following operational procedures are available for the Airbus
Aircraft Type :
-A300: QRH 13.01 thru 13.03, FCOM 8.05.10;
-A310: QRH 13.01 thru 13.03, FCOM 2.05.80;
-A300-600: QRH 13.01 thru 13.03, FCOM 2.05.80;
-A318/A318/A320/A321 family: QRH 2.15 thru 2.18A, FCOM 3.02.34;
-A330/A340 Family: QRH 2.21 thru 2.23B , FCOM 3.02.34;
-A380: ECAM not-sensed procedures, FCOM - Procedures / ECAM
Abnormal and Emergency Procedures / 34 Navigation.
An update on the accident data will be provided as soon as further
valuable information is approved for release by the Investigation

 

[Redmeat]

They don't want to find the black box on this one. Airbus and AF both want this to be end of story. They don't want to know why a modern jet can fall apart crossing the ocean.

Exactly.

I don't know about AF, but you can bet Airbus secretly is praying the black boxes are never recovered.

France (therefore AF) has a vested interest in the success of Airbus...

Edit: Here's my opinion on the Airbus... they are easy to fly and do everything for ya except make martinis and toast, but when the feces starts hitting the fan I wouldn't want that carbon fiber plastic piece of crap strapped to my behind!

AHhhh Aluminum...my favorite material.

 

[freightdogfred]

This story has some very interesting info.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090605/ap_on_re_la_am_ca/brazil_plane

Looks Like Airbus and the French have started some serious spin on this.
It's a shame that info on safety matters may be buried to protect a brand name.

 

[B-atch]

I suspect that this AC did not break-up in flight as some "Experts" are claiming. An in flight break-up would litter the ocean with Ac parts and bodies. The fact that nothing has been found leads me to believe that contact with the ocean surface was close to vertical. If this is the case, the wreckage should be clustered within a fairly compact area.
I remember back in the 80's an Iranian A-300 was blown out of the sky by a US frigate. The in flight break-up littered bodies and AC parts throughout the area. I believe this happened some were in the Persian Gulf, or the Straits of Hormuz

 

[Lear70]

Depends how it broke up.

If the tail separated, it most likely would have come down intact, maybe losing the wing(s), but the fuselage wouldn't automatically start disintegrating with the loss of just the tail and/or the wings.

What you're talking about is an in-flight explosion. What they're talking about is a separation of the tail or the wings or both.

 

[B-atch]

Point taken however, in the thin air at FL 350 at .80 mx a separation of the tail or wing would inevitably cause this ac to tumble and fragment.

The "scatter pattern" of an inflight structural break-up would be similar to an inflight explosion.
I'm no expert, just an observation.