Air France A-340 down in YYZ

[Groundpounder]

where were the howard stern callers today? they normally invade cnn when big news hits.

Because he is a 56 year old has-been, and no one cares anymore.

 

[transpondersoff]

While much of the criticism of the media may be deserved, the fact is that it is not as easy as one thinks. These times when an unexpected story pops like an air crash, it is extremely hard to get information yet there you are with a camera and microphone live and you have to talk, think. and listen, all at the same time.

Secondly, even if you have some knowledge about it, you have to be able to communicate it in a way that makes sense to the average listener.

I got the call from CNN on my way home to take my son to baseball. I was trying to listen to the local news to get information as I am talking to CNN about the accident, windshear, and microburst. Most of the producers have a list of people that they call about a specific subject. They then have to find that person and see what information that they have and set up a live feed and satillite connection and a studio.

Had I decided to go forth with an on air interview, I would have had to drive to the studio location they arranged, been hooked up, and then wait for broadcast time that matched sat time. I then have to communicate what a microburst is in language that people sitting at home can understand--- try it. And try it with a bunch of voices talking into your earpiece.

Trust me, on more than one occassion I have wondered why I said what I did. It is not easy.

First off, you don't have to do anything. You go on to CNN by choice. I can't say you are a media whore because I don't know you, but one does question why you would go on T.V and speculate the cause of the crash. Are you paid to go on CNN and speculate? The next time you go on the air for CNN and someone asks you what may have happened say that it is too early to tell, there isn't enough information and lets wait for the CTSB to determine the cause. No instead media hounds ask what if questions to embelish to the audience that they have experts who can tell exactly what happened 10 minutes after a crash.

In the minutes just after a crash the media went through the entire spectrum of what could have happened. Microburst, windshear, landing in a tailwind, brake failure,struck by lightening, hydroplaning, pilot error. Instead of scareing the public who already is afraid of flying, emphasize the excellent safety record the airlines have. Emphasize the training the crew has to help you if the need arises.

 

[Flying Illini]

The next time you go on the air for CNN and someone asks you what may have happened say that it is too early to tell, there isn't enough information and lets wait for the CTSB to determine the cause.

Instead of scareing the public who already is afraid of flying, emphasize the excellent safety record the airlines have. Emphasize the training the crew has to help you if the need arises.

Amen, Brotha!

 

[Flying Illini]

Have you guys heard the "verbal poo" coming from this lady's mouth?

Gwen Dunlop:

While most pax praised the flight crew's handling of the situation, Toronto resident Gwen Dunlop offered a different perspective.
"The oxygen masks never came down, the plane was filling up with smoke. One of the hosteses said, "you can calm down, it's OK" and yet the plane was on fire and smoke was pouring in," she said. "I don't like to criticize, but the staff did not seem helpful or prepared."

Screw you lady, that "unprepared" crew saved your arse!

I like the part about the O2 masks. They aren't supposed to drop lady. What are you going to do, put on your mask as you evacuate the airplane?! What an ungrateful b!tch!

Again, a big thumbs up to the entire crew for the positive outcome from this tragic accident.

 

[Publishers]

I did decline because I did not have sufficient access to information to talk about the accident. Of course this is why they find some private pilot because they are looking for someone to talk besides the anchor.

I was not defending them as much as trying to explain why at crunch time it is difficult to find someone to articulate the situation and to do it in a way that makes sense to the non flying public in 10 second answers.

Just saying it was an act of God smiting the aircraft does not do it. Explaining relative wind, ground speed, airspeed, microburst, is not that easy. I know when I was in one it was a clear night, only one single cumulus cloud almost directly over the airport I was approaching. It was literally like that hand of God pushing the aircraft down, airspeed going to hell, and trying to climb with no result. Gear up, flaps retracted, nose up, power max and barely staying at the same altitude for like 20 seconds.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS at 10/250
Watching it right now...


God help them all.
god's a little late, doncha think?__________________
"Uzi does it!"

No, as a matter of fact, I don't.

 

[transpondersoff]

Publishers, I understand this and please don't think I am attacking you. The general public is really not smart enough to understand relative wind, microburst, and groundspeed. Even if you put these in lay terms the fear the public has can not be overcome. They do infact think the hand of god slams them into the ground. They fear the unknown and because they are afraid they really won't comprehend it. It is like trying to explain to a person who has never been in a plane how to recover from a spin as you are doing them. They are litterally crapping thier pants and hearing ..blah..blah...blah.

The media is doing the best they can to feed the fears by bringing experts on T.V. and asking them questions that are not even relevant. The media knows enough about windshear and microbursts but they will paint you into a corner by recalling all kinds of accidents that are not the same. They won't go into the quick actions the flight crew took to get everybody off the plane and out of harms way. Instead they try to point out that the airplane is engulfed in flames and can carry 300 some odd people. They don't really draw conclusions but try to keep the story running. The story was simple, the plane overran the runway, all on the plane survived because of the training and quick actions of the crew, the CTSB is investigating.

 

[SennaP1]

Passengers are reporting that the lights went completely dark in the cabin just before landing. Perhaps a lighting strike somehow effected the fly-by-wire controls of the underpowered Airbus causing an inability of the crew to control the aircraft. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that were the case and the E-N-T-I-R-E Airbus fleet was grounded!!

So how would that be wonderful? I-D-I-O-T..!!

 

[Metro752]

About as nice as if the entire RJ fleet was grounded. Nice comment dumb ass!

Kind of like when the 1900 fleet was grounded!!!!




Sorry I had to, it's in your profile!

 

[transpondersoff]

Originally Posted by Steveair
Passengers are reporting that the lights went completely dark in the cabin just before landing. Perhaps a lighting strike somehow effected the fly-by-wire controls of the underpowered Airbus causing an inability of the crew to control the aircraft. Wouldn't it be wonderful if that were the case and the E-N-T-I-R-E Airbus fleet was grounded!!

QUOTE=SennaP1]So how would that be wonderful? I-D-I-O-T..!![/QUOTE]

Steveair is either a french hater, a boeing supporter, or has a lot of money invested in Boeing. My take is let the CTSB investigate and determine what happened. That is why they make the big bucks.

 

[Flying Illini]

My take is let the CTSB investigate and determine what happened. That is why they make the big bucks.

Why? I thought the media and their "experts" had already determined the caused and that the case was closed.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Steveair

What a fantastic idea. Never mind the impact it'll have on aviation. While we're at it, how about grounding all 747s and 737s, or is it only European built aircraft (with around 40% of the components manufactured in the US by the way) that should be subject to your infantile ideas? Let's also ground all the CRJs and CL600s. And the Diesel-8s, 9s, 10s and their MD offspring. And the TriStars. We deffo also need to ground all them pesky Russian aircraft, for reasons various. In fact, let's just ground every flying machine ever conceived and go back to living in the caves.

Meanwhile, back in the real world, I heard that the last guy to leave the ship was the skipper, having done a sweep of the cabin. How about that for guts and living up to the honourable marine tradition of being the last to leave. Well done Captain!

 

[Steveair]

Airbus's are underpowered, maintenance headaches, and designed to take the pilot out of the cockpit. What exactly is there to like about them??

 

[SennaP1]

Airbus's are underpowered, maintenance headaches, and designed to take the pilot out of the cockpit. What exactly is there to like about them??

As opposed to your CRJ?

I bet it'll outclimb, go faster, ....and has a better dispatch reliability record than your Canuck Clipper.

 

[Flyingdutchman]

I agree with Euro.

The captain did a great job. Yes, I would do the same thing. But, you'll need some balls to go out and do it.

FD

 

[C601]

Airbus's are underpowered, maintenance headaches, and designed to take the pilot out of the cockpit. What exactly is there to like about them??

Little grasshopper here thinks he knows all about Airbus aircraft.... but yet the biggest acft he has flown is a little CRJ... Funny

 

[hyper]

"......jet plowed off the runway at Pearson International Airport, Toronto, Canada, as it landed during a fierce storm."

http://www.cnn.com/

"Lackey said take-offs had been halted and the storm moving across the airport at the time of the crash was "definitely an extreme storm. It was something we haven't seen here for some time. ... It was definitely different, much more severe."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/03/airfrance.crash.ap/index.html

Am I missing something in this thread? If the weather was in fact as it was reported, then I'd see the cockpit crew as anything than heroic. Reckless comes to mind as a matter of fact. The cabin crew, yes; the rescue crew, yes; but the crew in the nose is lucky that no lives were lost. It sounds as though they shouldn't have been in that position as it was. Hold or go somewhere else.

American in Arkansas comes to mind, but maybe they weren't heros because lives were lost.


"I want to pay homage to the crew," Spinetta said at a news conference at Air France headquarters. "I don't know if we should speak of a miracle, but we can certainly speak of the training of the crew, above all the professionalism of the crew."

http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/americas/08/03/airfrance.crash.ap/index.html

Leave it to the French to start blowing their own horn about how great their skills and training. It would appear to me that LUCK was as important a factor.

 

[BornAgainPagan]

Leave it to the French to start blowing their own horn about how great their skills and training. It would appear to me that LUCK was as important a factor.

Leave it to the imbeciles to play into the hands of the media and knee jerk reactionary non-flying public to speculate and assign blame before the investigation is completed. Not to mention the imbeciles that are prejudiced based on nationality.

 

[Cpt. Underpants]

You all amaze me with your ignorance.

Don't believe all you read. I have 3000+ PIC hours on the A340-300. There is nothing wrong with it. It's a fine aircraft, more than suited to the transatlantic market it primarily serves. We (at CX) have flown the A343 HKG-YYZ nonstop (14+ hours) without any problems. Sure, we don't have a lot of gas left at the end, but in full compliance with ICAO reserves.

• Sure, it doesn't climb like a twin - it's not supposed to.
• It's acceleration isn't stellar - it's not supposed to be.
• It doesn't go straight to FL350 - it's a 275000kg (606 300lbs to you) airplane that has a 16 hour endurance, for Pete's sake.
• It has a superior flight control system - better than Boeing.
• It flies on the smell of an oily rag - accountants love them (what's oil at today?)
• It's significantly quieter on the flight deck than any Boeing I have ever flown (727, 737, 747, 757, 767 - typed on all, BTW)
• I feel better (physically) after a ULH on the Bus than I ever felt on the B744 - the air circulates better and has a higher RH.
• It's system integration is amazing.
• It's redundancies are impressive.
• It's MEL/CDL is far less restrictive than Boeing due to the above.
• I could not imagine 400 hour JFO's in the RHS of a B744, yet I see them quite regularly in the A343 doing a fine job.

Stop this senseless speculation on something you know NOTHING about. Wait for the investigators to do their jobs and stop embarrasing yourselves.

(spelling)

 

[Occam's Razor]

Steveair wrote: "Airbus's are underpowered, maintenance headaches, and designed to take the pilot out of the cockpit. What exactly is there to like about them??"

I don't care if you stayed in a Holiday Inn last night...

Just because you've seen one taxi doesn't mean you know anything about them.