Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[SIG600]

Still don't what the question is? BTW Something we agree on, ability declines with age, just not uniformly. To set one age as a the cut off ignores the more rapid decline of some of the younger pilots. One standard for all regardless of age.:laugh:

Tilt your head back further so your trifocals will allow you to read the entire post. His question was in the part you snipped off.

Don't worry either, no one wants your seat.

 

[pilotyip]

Tilt your head back further so your trifocals will allow you to read the entire post. His question was in the part you snipped off.

Don't worry either, no one wants your seat.

1st class medical, no limitations including glasses so I don't have to look through my tri-focals. Do just fine without glasses.

 

[waveflyer]

ATFQ yip or just shut it- you're a one trick pony.

And yes- if I'm doing their job, and making the decisions in spite of them- I ought to be making the money they are. Why do you refuse to admit that pilots like all people decline with age?

I asked you a very straightforward question many posts ago: you highlighted your cargo schedule where pilots in their 20's and 30's were catching naps to make it through. And I asked, "true, but who could handle that schedule better, yip at 30 or yip at 60?

Says volumes that you won't answer.

Here's the thing fellas- we know what this group is. So WE have to take from them now. It is the only remedy for that generation of leeches

 

[laker4284]

Here's the thing fellas- we know what this group is. So WE have to take from them now. It is the only remedy for that generation of leeches

"Take from"?

Of course, the corollary is that the same generation GAVE five years BACK to our profession (which had been unfairly/illegally taken away in 1959-60). Five YEARS is huge in an age where retirement depends on asset accumulation via 401k, etc.

So, you might say "Thank you!"

The complaint might better be presented as an implementation issue than the age change itself. Implementation went through many iterations over the past 15 years, but what we ended up with was more a reflection of political reality tan so-called "greed".

Now...

back to my coffee.

 

[Andy]

Of course, the corollary is that the same generation GAVE five years BACK to our profession (which had been unfairly/illegally taken away in 1959-60). Five YEARS is huge in an age where retirement depends on asset accumulation via 401k, etc.

So, you might say "Thank you!"

Let me be the first to thank you and your generation for an additional 4 years of furlough.

 

[727gm]

Let me be the first to thank you and your generation for an additional 4 years of furlough.

If you were more senior, you wouldn't have been furloughed. That's seniority.

 

[SIG600]

If you were more senior, you wouldn't have been furloughed. That's seniority.

And we would ALL be five years closer to retirement.

 

[laker4284]

Let me be the first to thank you and your generation for an additional 4 years of furlough.

You're welcome (written just as sarcastically as was your post).

Perhaps your airline furloughed due to the age change impact on your training department. Perhaps. The biggest impact, by far, was the worst recession since the Great Depression. That was not the fault of older pilots. Obviously.

But NOT ALL airlines furloughed due to training issues. Not even most did. Some airlines (perhaps just as many?) continued to grow and hire or at a minimum endured the status quo.

Re retirements and "training furloughs" you were at the wrong airline, Andy. It's tiresome to hear you keep pounding that drum. You picked the wrong one, or it had contracts with training clauses that proved to be damaging...or you were just unlucky.

Many thousands in my generation got unlucky, too. The '80 and '90s were a bloodbath. My airline vanished forever and I started over. I got over it.

60 should never have happened; its change was long overdue; some folks got hurt and that's a damned shame but...

That's life.

 

[Andy]

Laker, you are a poster child for the narcissism that permeates throughout your generation. You can 'rationalize' it any way you like, but a LOT of people were hurt by your generation's 'gift.'

 

[laker4284]

Laker, you are a poster child for the narcissism that permeates throughout your generation. You can 'rationalize' it any way you like, but a LOT of people were hurt by your generation's 'gift.'

And a lot were helped.

Long term, ALL airline pilots' career was extended. Spare me your self-centered and short-sighted angst. You were with the wrong airline and the wrong place in space and time. It happens.

We've all seen hardship in this career. Blame it on Carter and deregulation. In the meantime, calling me (my generation) narcissistic won't cut it. We've seen too much to be impressed.

 

[kwick]

Laker, you are a poster child for the narcissism that permeates throughout your generation. You can 'rationalize' it any way you like, but a LOT of people were hurt by your generation's 'gift.'

You got ahead because of DISCRIMINATION, do you get it?

Just because you think you're better than Blacks, or women, or
other minorities, doesn't work anymore!

Your thinking is not accepted anymore.

Join the twenty-first century man, and lose the attitude.

Nazis and KKK members aren't that popular on the flight deck anymore.

Grow up!

 

[sleepy]

I don't see age 60, 65 or 67 as realistic retirement ages any longer. 70 is the new 60, so that seems about the right time to go. With people living into their 80's and 90's now you have to work longer to survive. The decline in health care that will come with Obamacare might change this, but for now I would say that if you can get a first class medical you can fly till you die.

I am 50 and thanks to good planning will retire at 60, although I should not have to if I can still do the job well.

 

[kwick]

A lot of good Americans died fighting against your type of
discrimination!

 

[Flopgut]

And a lot were helped.

Long term, ALL airline pilots' career was extended. Spare me your self-centered and short-sighted angst. You were with the wrong airline and the wrong place in space and time. It happens.

We've all seen hardship in this career. Blame it on Carter and deregulation. In the meantime, calling me (my generation) narcissistic won't cut it. We've seen too much to be impressed.

Four (4) pilots were over age 60 when that became the age limit. That's how many got screwed by it.

Andy wasn't with the wrong airline at the wrong time. He had the misfortune of following in your generation's wake. He'd be an Airbus captain if a guy like you hadn't sold out scope and then pushed for retirement age change. Or, in other words, if you'd been half the fellow pilot to him the pilot generation before you was to you.

How about you respond to my earlier post directed at you? Time to show some leadership and ethical behavior and support 65 and retirement progression resuming.

 

[Flopgut]

I don't see age 60, 65 or 67 as realistic retirement ages any longer. 70 is the new 60, so that seems about the right time to go. With people living into their 80's and 90's now you have to work longer to survive. The decline in health care that will come with Obamacare might change this, but for now I would say that if you can get a first class medical you can fly till you die.

I am 50 and thanks to good planning will retire at 60, although I should not have to if I can still do the job well.

I spent a lot of time in the 91 and 135 world. I never met a sharp pilot who couldn't fly past airline retirement age if they really wanted to. However, there are a great many who didn't/don't get that choice. They are typically the pilots with marginal stick skills or personality problems. They are, for the most part, the ones who pushed the age increase to 65 (and are still pushing it). So what was true with 60 is no less true with 65. The sharp ones will have an opportunity. The goofballs will keep bawling for more airline years be given to them.

 

[Mamma]

A lot of good Americans died fighting against your type of
discrimination!

Yep! And we didn't stop when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor either!

 

[Mamma]

You got ahead because of DISCRIMINATION, do you get it?

Just because you think you're better than Blacks, or women, or
other minorities, doesn't work anymore!

Your thinking is not accepted anymore.

Join the twenty-first century man, and lose the attitude.

Nazis and KKK members aren't that popular on the flight deck anymore.

Grow up!

Drinking and posting can be a bad mix as evidenced here.

 

[sleepy]

I spent a lot of time in the 91 and 135 world. I never met a sharp pilot who couldn't fly past airline retirement age if they really wanted to. However, there are a great many who didn't/don't get that choice. They are typically the pilots with marginal stick skills or personality problems. They are, for the most part, the ones who pushed the age increase to 65 (and are still pushing it). So what was true with 60 is no less true with 65. The sharp ones will have an opportunity. The goofballs will keep bawling for more airline years be given to them.

I agree with you. Being in Part 91 we can fire any pilot who doesn't perform regardless of age. I guess in the unionized airlines it isn't so easy to get rid of poor performers? But they still have to get a First Class medical and pass their checkrides I guess?

 

[Andy]

And a lot were helped.

Long term, ALL airline pilots' career was extended. Spare me your self-centered and short-sighted angst. You were with the wrong airline and the wrong place in space and time. It happens.

We've all seen hardship in this career. Blame it on Carter and deregulation. In the meantime, calling me (my generation) narcissistic won't cut it. We've seen too much to be impressed.

The ONLY ones helped by this were those about to turn 60 and those too stupid to save for retirement.

Question: why is it GOOD that people now have to work longer? Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?

You're a narcissist. You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving. I pointed out that MANY suffered due to your generation's push to raise retirement age. And it's not just those that were furloughed.

You got ahead because of DISCRIMINATION, do you get it?

Just because you think you're better than Blacks, or women, or
other minorities, doesn't work anymore!

Your thinking is not accepted anymore.

Join the twenty-first century man, and lose the attitude.

Nazis and KKK members aren't that popular on the flight deck anymore.

Grow up!

Wow. You're in dire need of a psych eval. This isn't merely jumping the shark; it's bizzarro world. YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women; there were no barriers to minorities when I started flying commercially. When you were hired, there weren't any commercial women pilots and the number of black pilots could be counted on your fingers.

 

[laker4284]

The ONLY ones helped by this were those about to turn 60 and those too stupid to save for retirement.

Question: why is it GOOD that people now have to work longer? Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?

You're a narcissist. You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving. I pointed out that MANY suffered due to your generation's push to raise retirement age. And it's not just those that were furloughed.


...YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women; there were no barriers to minorities when I started flying commercially. When you were hired, there weren't any commercial women pilots and the number of black pilots could be counted on your fingers.

Wow. What a disappointment. One might expect better of you, Andy, but in these posts you (maybe?) showed your true inner self.

Clearly, the "ONLY ones" who gained in the age change were NOT those turning 60 or "those too stupid to save for retirement". Those who gained in the age change were those who stood for the "right to work" principle, many since they were in their 30s; or the thousands who lost a career and had to start over in the aftermath of deregulation; or those who lost their pensions post 9/11. The list goes on. Were these pilots all "stupid"?

I seem to recall that the United guys lost their pensions (or the bulk of them) and, following that, there was some kind of asset "distribution" to the entire pilot group. I also recall that the asset was an "equal" distribution and that the older guys, who had lost their pensions, got nothing extra to help replace them. They came to Washington, in force, with knowledge, smarts and money - highly motivated to recapture some of what they lost....and they had a bitter anger at the "younger" pilots who they felt sold them out. You're United, right Andy? One of the "younger" guys? You might want to look into the mirror and ask yourself, "What's fair, what's right?" Because the way things shook out, you guys created part of the problem that sent senior United pilots to Washington.

Plus: They weren't "stupid". They kicked some serious ALPA and APA butt while they were there!

This is rich: "Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?"

Firstly the last refuge of someone who has lost the fight is to be a name-caller. You label people as "stupid" (yet they beat you in DC); you label me a "loser who has no life outside of work." You say I am a "narcissist".

My wife is sitting next to me, smiling. I'm laughing!

Hikes, family, friends, golf, boats, photo-archiving, cruising a forum or two...pretty much the same stuff I've always done only more so at this stage of my life. Oh, and I was careful with my money and recovered nicely in my second airline career. I've always supported the age change...and it wasn't based primarily on money. I don't like the government decreeing (based on nothing or faulty info) when or my peers career should end. It's the exact same principle that had ALPA (a collective membership of thousands, all injured by the age change in 1960) fighting on Capitol Hill and in court for twenty years to reverse the Age 60 Rule.

Still, I gotta say, it's kind of cheesy of you to do the name-calling thing.

Clean miss: "You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving."

Not much praise for my comments to be found here or the countdown thread. None expected on these threads. It's even harder to find fragile egos among pilots. From my early posts here I was adding facts to a discussion that was woefully short of facts and long on feelings and emotion. The truth seems to be that guys like you believe what they want to believe and the factual RECORD is largely ignored (if it was ever consulted to start with).

For example, in other posts you went on and on about your "sources" telling you the rule wouldn't change; you didn't know about the FAA's final (and damning ) section of their age study; and you seemed not to have read the age ARC report. Your "source" was misguided, or misinformed, or clueless or incompetent. However YOU want to judge his information it is worth posting on the forum for others that he was waaaaaaay off base. For you to still talk as though the guy had a clue is a mystery to many of us.

But let's finish with this (not directed directly to me but, rather, my generation): "YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women..."

So I'm not only "stupid", a "loser" and a "narcissist"...I'm also a RACIST as well?! Or at least my generation is? Wow! Well, that's really climbing down in the gutter; not to mention it fails to address societal history accurately.

Not to worry, my time here is up. I have to go stare in the mirror a bit (narcisisst-like), maybe make up some anti-black/anti-woman material my friends and I can distribute (covertly of course); a stare into my financial statements pensively, wondering how I could have gone so badly wrong. NOT!

The last refuge is name calling. Something worth remembering.