Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[SIG600]

Again if it so bad why our former pilots call here when they are unemployed?

Because obviously your place is better than unemployment, congrats on meeting that lofty standard.

 

[jonjuan]

Because obviously your place is better than unemployment, congrats on meeting that lofty standard.

No kidding. Better than being dead, I suppose.

 

[flyboyike]

Now what exactly is meant by this? I am the the DA20 standards I don't set pay, days off or any of that stuff. But I fight everyday to make it a better place to work. I care greatly, I want to see them succeed, I want to give them the best training available at this level of the business. I want to see them move on to career jobs. Where else does a SE prop driver make it to 121 TJ PIC to get the resume fluff that lands a job at SWA, Atlas, DAL, etc? They are my friends and I do everything I can to help them make the next step. It is not about me it is about them reaching the promise land that I never got to see.

Again if it so bad why our former pilots call here when they are unemployed?

No worries, if you have your way, they will be your friends for life, as there will be nowhere for them to move on to.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

These accidents happened when there were no over 60 pilots in 121 flying. In addition, there have been huge advancements in CRM that were not there during Tenerife. I think the CRM advancements and technology like EGPWS, LLWS, TCAS, airfield surface radar and a host of others have helped prevent many accidents. The fact still remains that you as a captain have not flown with the older crowd and cannot comment on what happens. The FO is not paid to babysit, man the fort while the old guy sleeps or mitigate a host of other things that happen. Most pilots cannot fight the effects of aging and it shows to the FOs that fly with them. Not all, but enough to raise alarm.

And while I am in neither group, I am in the middle, not old, not young. I have seen F/Os who cannot combat the effects of inexperience, as well as Captains who shouldn't be in any seat, much less the left. This industry has moved from hiring the best and the brightest to hiring the candidate who has the credit rating that allowed them to progress through the process. Excellence in credit does not always make the best aviator. Seen the results myself personally, F/Os who would have been weeded out long before they got to the regionals, but because they went from the right seat of a 152 to the right seat of a CRJ, most do well enough, but there are a few FL410/Buffalo candidates waiting to show their stuff, probably in the same ratio as the old guys who have lost it.

 

[cldsfr79]

I fly with 65+ year olds on the 135 side of the fence and there are two types of guys I see. 1. Guys who have lost the edge and should retire but don't. 2. Guys who seem completely fine until there is an issue and then they fall far behind the plane and situation.

There are very few that are still fully capable beyond this age. Not speculation by me, but real world experience.

1. The guys who have lost the edge are the ones that have you do the night landings because they lost the optical acuity, the ones who you literally have to "talk down" even on a visual approach, the ones that make you "pucker up" and make you want to grab the controls on challenging environmental landings, and the ones that need a couple of attempts to make it through a routine recurrent sim check. They can be dangerous, but in the 135 world, you don't have to retire, they will sue if you fire them, and they will tell you that the omnipotent FAA medical is their badge of fitness.

2. The second batch of guys are equally a problem and I call them the "latent error" pilots. They are the ones that seem just fine, fly great but if anything out of the routine happens that requires quick thinking and quick reflexes, then you are in for a treat. All of a sudden you are not only monitoring the situation but you are monitoring your partner and assisting them to get through the situation.

This age thing is a problem. I, as well as hundreds of others, deal with the age threat on a daily bases. It adds to my flight tasks and I need my partner to be at a 100% during a situation, not having to babysit them and work on the problem.

I would only agree to an age increase if there was a cognitive and memory test required every 6 months done by, not the FAA, but a real cognitive specialist after the age 65. If you pass, then you are good to continue flying.

 

[texman]

cldsfr79,

Brother you get it and have seen it. The FAA needs to turn to the corporate and 135/91K to see the real danger of the AGE increase, if it does happen.

 

[pilotyip]

I would only agree to an age increase if there was a cognitive and memory test required every 6 months done by, not the FAA, but a real cognitive specialist after the age 65. If you pass, then you are good to continue flying.

Great idea but we start administering it at age 40, just like the six month First Class Medical. We may fine more than a few under 60 piltos who are outperformed by their over 60 buddies

 

[Andy]

I would only agree to an age increase if there was a cognitive and memory test required every 6 months done by, not the FAA, but a real cognitive specialist after the age 65. If you pass, then you are good to continue flying.

Unlikely to happen. And if it did, we'd see posts with people shopping for the 'easy' cognitive specialist.
Why are AMEs so quick to sign off on marginal pilots? Because if they don't, someone else will AND word will get out to not go to that AME.

Looking for an easy AME? Find out the AME that Yip's buddies go to.

 

[pilotyip]

Unlikely to happen. And if it did, we'd see posts with people shopping for the 'easy' cognitive specialist.
Why are AMEs so quick to sign off on marginal pilots? Because if they don't, someone else will AND word will get out to not go to that AME.

Looking for an easy AME? Find out the AME that Yip's buddies go to.

You mean my buddies from DAL, Spirit, USAir, NJ, and JUS? Doc Gordon, Plymouth, MI it is a drive through, go to the first window, place your order, pay at the second, pick up your medical the front desk. does one every 10 minutes. Does most of the airline Medicals in the Detroit area.

 

[Andy]

You mean my buddies from DAL, Spirit, USAir, NJ, and JUS? Doc Gordon, Plymouth, MI it is a drive through, go to the first window, place your order, pay at the second, pick up your medical the front desk. does one every 10 minutes. Does most of the airline Medicals in the Detroit area.

Shack. That's why increasing the retirement age is such a great idea - we have an infallible medical screening process. ... no 400+lb pilots waddling around the aerodrome, eh? No borderline diabetics sliding through their medicals. No high blood pressure pilots who are one cheeseburger away from a stroke getting issued class Is.

 

[laker4284]

As has been stated before on this forum, the Federal Air Surgeon (at the Age 60 ARC held by the FAA in 2006) noted that the present aero medical was functioning without need for change - the system catches problems before they are cockpit issues. As was also previously noted, those talking of stricter medicals (for older pilots one presumes) are thus addressing a non-issue AND simultaneously opening the door for thousands of younger pilots being disastrously exposed to the same enhanced medical standards. I'm sitting on an aircraft right now (as a pax) and watched a very fit 55+ year-old Captain board standing tall and looking alert. The 30-ish co-pilot, on the other hand, is badly overweight (monster gut hanging over his belt) , shuffled when he walked? He was lacking in posture, fitness, attitude and alertness. Whom might you suppose is monitoring whom on this flight? If the Air Surgeon says there is no issue, why open Pandora's Box?

 

[flyboyike]

As has been stated before on this forum, the Federal Air Surgeon (at the Age 60 ARC held by the FAA in 2006) noted that the present aero medical was functioning without need for change - the system catches problems before they are cockpit issues.

With all due respect to the FAS, I don't think his saying that makes it true.

 

[laker4284]

With all due respect to the FAS, I don't think his saying that makes it true.

Well, it's nice to know that "expert" pilots on these forums are more knowledgeable than a doctor (who's also an accomplished pilot) sitting in the top aeronautical medical seat in the nation.

Perhaps you should send him a series of pithy e-mails to set him straight? ;-)

 

[pilotyip]

Well, it's nice to know that "expert" pilots on these forums are more knowledgeable than a doctor (who's also an accomplished pilot) sitting in the top aeronautical medical seat in the nation.

Perhaps you should send him a series of pithy e-mails to set him straight? ;-)

Again this is not about safety, it about greed and get out of my seat because I want your money. But that would sound greedy from the anti age 65 crowd, so they wave the safety flag because no one can be against safety. But they never want to apply the enhanced standards to anyone under 60 becuase it might effect them.

 

[kwick]

With all due respect to the FAS, I don't think his saying that makes it true.

And there lies the main truth about the danger of inexperience.

They don't know what they don't know.

And the scary part is they think that they do.

 

[madjack]

There is plenty of greed on BOTH sides of the issue...really if 65 years is not enough time, 67 won't be either...the younger pilots need a shot...

 

[Mamma]

Again this is not about safety, it about greed and get out of my seat because I want your money. But that would sound greedy from the anti age 65 crowd, so they wave the safety flag because no one can be against safety. But they never want to apply the enhanced standards to anyone under 60 becuase it might effect them.

You don't see it as greed from the older crowd? Take your blinders off man! You say a young guy with a family and college debt is greedy because he wants to move up from an RJ after 10 years? The system is built around guys moving on at age 60. They got 5 more years and the young guys paid for it with stagnation, crappy pay and furloughs. Now the gummers say its not enough. They want the young guys to pay again for their greed. To top it all off, the young guys have to babysit many of them. You have some nerve to call the young guys greedy.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You don't see it as greed from the older crowd? Take your blinders off man! You say a young guy with a family and college debt is greedy because he wants to move up from an RJ after 10 years? The system is built around guys moving on at age 60. They got 5 more years and the young guys paid for it with stagnation, crappy pay and furloughs. Now the gummers say its not enough. They want the young guys to pay again for their greed. To top it all off, the young guys have to babysit many of them. You have some nerve to call the young guys greedy.

Your greed is somehow different than any of the other greed? How's that entitlement thing working out for you?

 

[SIG600]

Again this is not about safety, it about greed and get out of my seat because I want your money. But that would sound greedy from the anti age 65 crowd, so they wave the safety flag because no one can be against safety. But they never want to apply the enhanced standards to anyone under 60 becuase it might effect them.

Bull********************. You guys knew your entire careers that 60 was where you were done. You built your career expectations on it, you always knew it was coming. Then when the goal posts get moved, you guys get a 5 year/multi million dollar windfall, you don't get to say "it was always mine you greedy little turds" It was never yours, it ALWAYS belonged to the guys behind you until. Just like it belonged to you when the guys ahead were forced out at 60. Nevermind the ruined careers and families of those guys behind you that were planning on the same progression who were then furloughed.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Bull********************. You guys knew your entire careers that 60 was where you were done. You built your career expectations on it, you always knew it was coming. Then when the goal posts get moved, you guys get a 5 year/multi million dollar windfall, you don't get to say "it was always mine you greedy little turds" It was never yours, it ALWAYS belonged to the guys behind you until. Just like it belonged to you when the guys ahead were forced out at 60. Nevermind the ruined careers and families of those guys behind you that were planning on the same progression who were then furloughed.

Do you need a hug? Ribbon?

Here's an excerpt from the recent Time Magazine article entitled "The Me Me Me Generation":

"The incidence of narcissistic personality disorder is nearly three times as high for people in their 20s as for the generation that?s now 65 or older, according to the National Institutes of Health; 58% more college students scored higher on a narcissism scale in 2009 than in 1982. Millennials got so many participation trophies growing up that a recent study showed that 40% believe they should be promoted every two years, regardless of performance."

You want the brass ring, stomp your feet and whine like a puppy fresh off the teat, that will make it happen quicker.....