Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[Andy]

If you are a pilot, candy bars, porn and free beer are the very essence in life. Candy bars, because that's all there is at the airport at 11:30PM, Porn, because you are away from your significant other for 300+ hours a month, and free beer, because it allows you to forget the miserable life choice you made years ago and being drunk evens out all the above.
There!

Nice. I'll agree on the porn and beer, but I'd rather get the cheese and crackers from the vending machine than the candy bar. Neither is a desirable choice which is why I have a couple of protein/granola bars in the front pocket of my suitcase. They're always smashed up but if I'm that hungry, I don't mind.

 

[kwick]

It sounds like Pro-Stan is keeping dangerous pilots flying on the line. The guy proposed an alternative solution. What is YOUR recommendation on how to deal with dangerous pilots? Just look the other way? Because that's what it sounds like you're advocating.

Call Pro-Standards, put on No-Fly list.

Do your job, and let them do their job.

Get rid of Malcontent F/O's, who blame all their problems on
somebody else, and don't respect their profession enough to go through
established safety procedures.

It's not his decision to determine if another pilot is safe. He obviously
has an agenda, is not a check airman, and might not have ever been
a captain himself.

 

[list2002]

Talk about pilot shortage, it says in this that crew weight restrictions were lifted in 1990? I thought it was long before that. Either way, I'm waiting for my "personal" profit sharing check as I must weight at least 50-75 lbs less than the average joe I fly with. How much would it cost to fly 50 lbs for say 800 hrs? Not to mention medical insurance due to % of complications relating to obesity...
http://money.msn.com/now/post--to-cut-fuel-costs-this-airline-wont-hire-men

 

[nordo_2]

Maybe, if a few Captains bypassed Pro-Standards, and wrote letters
about you as you did, they might save a whole generation of F/Os
from flying with a real DH.

I'm talking about extreme cases. Not just a mild disagreement of personalities. What if your company does not have a bid avoidance, No-Fly list? Most don't. Now what? Pro-Standards you say? Ok. Again, Pro-Standards while well intentioned will make no derogatory remarks about any pilot they represent. Pro-Standards keeps no paper work that can potentially be detrimental to any pilot it represents.

I can only think of few company's that have a No-Fly list. I have never worked for one. If you do, that's great. Then that's the way to go, I guess. Again if you go to pro-standards, and if the other pilot is unwilling to change or recuse themselves, that's it. Whole encounter ends there. Nothing solved.

Or, you can make your own no-fly list. And make management do their job. Again I'm talking about people who disregard every kind of norm, s.o.p.(s) when they feel like it, yelling like its cool. Up and down behavior. Pro-standards is a joke for anything like this.

 

[Skyboy722]

Call Pro-Standards, put on No-Fly list.

Do your job, and let them do their job.

Get rid of Malcontent F/O's, who blame all their problems on
somebody else, and don't respect their profession enough to go through
established safety procedures.

It's not his decision to determine if another pilot is safe. He obviously
has an agenda, is not a check airman, and might not have ever been
a captain himself.

Are you saying that an FO has no place assessing the abilities or decisions of a captain???

WOW!!!.........

That attitude has put a bunch of craters in the ground....

 

[waveflyer]

Right, this has never happened to a pilot under the age of 60. In my 30's flying the Emery hub out of KDAY at night, that was the only way you could sure you would be awake for the approach the your destination.

And who would handle that schedule better? Yip in his 30's or yip in his 60's?

Please don't lie.

 

[waveflyer]

Sacha,

I asked you a few specific questions-
Would you mind answering?

Sacha?
Bueller?

Can't admit that the rule change led to the direct furlough of thousands? Many for their second long round of them?

 

[Andy]

Call Pro-Standards, put on No-Fly list.

Do your job, and let them do their job.

Get rid of Malcontent F/O's, who blame all their problems on
somebody else, and don't respect their profession enough to go through
established safety procedures.

It's not his decision to determine if another pilot is safe. He obviously
has an agenda, is not a check airman, and might not have ever been
a captain himself.

Seriously? Even though going through that route accomplishes nothing?

Not his decision to determine if another pilot is safe? Seriously? Are you saying that one pilot can't tell if another pilot is unsafe? I've made assessments of others for a very long time, as has everyone else including you. To suggest that he, or any other FO, is incapable of making honest evaluations of others' flying abilities is the height of arrogance. You sorely need a review of the code of ethics:

Code of Ethics

An Air Line Pilot will keep uppermost in his mind that the safety, comfort, and well-being of the passengers who entrust their lives to him are his first and greatest responsibility.

? He will never permit external pressures or personal desires to influence his judgment, nor will he knowingly do anything that could jeopardize flight safety.
? He will remember that an act of omission can be as hazardous as a deliberate act of commission, and he will not neglect any detail that contributes to the safety of his flight, or perform any operation in a negligent or careless manner.
? Consistent with flight safety, he will at all times operate his aircraft in a manner that will contribute to the comfort, peace of mind, and well-being of his passengers, instilling in them trust in him and the airline he represents.
? Once he has discharged his primary responsibility for the safety and comfort of his passengers, he will remember that they depend upon him to do all possible to deliver them to their destination at the scheduled time.
? If disaster should strike, he will take whatever action he deems necessary to protect the lives of his passengers and crew.​

An Air Line Pilot will faithfully discharge the duty he owes the airline that employs him and whose salary makes possible his way of life.

? He will do all within his powers to operate his aircraft efficiently and on schedule in a manner that will not cause damage or unnecessary maintenance.
? He will respect the officers, directors, and supervisors of his airline, remembering that respect does not entail subservience.
? He will faithfully obey all lawful directives given by his supervisors, but will insist and, if necessary, refuse to obey any directives that, in his considered judgment, are not lawful or will adversely affect flight safety. He will remember that in the final analysis the responsibility for safe completion of the flight rests upon his shoulders.
? He will not knowingly falsify any log or record, nor will he condone such action by other crew members.
? He will remember that a full month?s salary demands a full and fair month?s work. On his days off, he will not engage in any occupation or activity that will diminish his efficiency or bring discredit to his profession.
? He will realize that he represents the airline to all who meet him and will at all times keep his personal appearance and conduct above reproach.
? He will give his airline, its officers, directors, and supervisors the full loyalty that is their due, and will refrain from speaking ill of them. If he feels it necessary to reveal and correct conditions that are not conducive to safe operations and harmonious relations, he will direct his criticism to the proper authorities within ALPA.
? He will hold his airline?s business secrets in confidence, and will take care that they are not improperly revealed.​

An Air Line Pilot will accept the responsibilities as well as the rewards of command and will at all times so conduct himself both on duty and off as to instill and merit the confidence and respect of his crew, his fellow employees, and his associates within the profession.

? He will know and understand the duties of each member of his crew. If in command, he will be firm but fair, explicit yet tolerant of deviations that do not affect the safe and orderly completion of the flight. He will be efficient yet relaxed, so that the duties of the crew may be carried out in a harmonious manner.
? If in command, he will expect efficient performance of each crew member?s duties, yet he will overlook small discrepancies and refrain from unnecessary and destructive criticism, so that the crew member will retain his self-respect and cooperative attitude. A frank discussion of minor matters of technique and performance after the flight will create goodwill and a desire to be helpful, whereas sharp criticism and peremptory orders at the moment will result only in the breakdown of morale and an inefficient, halting performance of future duties.
? An Air Line Pilot will remember that his is a profession heavily dependent on training during regular operations and, if in command, will afford his flight crew members every reasonable opportunity, consistent with safety and efficiency, to learn and practice. He will endeavor to instill in his crew a sense of pride and responsibility. In making reports on the work and conduct of his crew members, he will avoid personal prejudices, make his reports factual and his criticisms constructive so that actions taken as a result of his reports will improve the knowledge and skill of his crew members, rather than bring discredit, endanger their livelihood, and threaten their standing in the profession.
? While in command, the Air Line Pilot will be mindful of the welfare of his crew. He will see to it that his crew are properly lodged and cared for, particularly during unusual operating conditions. When cancellations result in deadheading, he will ensure that proper arrangements are made for the transportation of his crew before he takes care of himself.​

An Air Line Pilot will conduct his affairs with other members of the profession and with ALPA in such a manner as to bring credit to the profession and ALPA as well as to himself.

? He will not falsely or maliciously injure the professional reputation, prospects, or job security of another pilot, yet if he knows of professional incompetence or conduct detrimental to the profession or to ALPA, he will not shrink from revealing this to the proper authorities within ALPA, so that the weak member may be brought up to the standards demanded, or ALPA and the profession alike may be rid of one unworthy to share its rewards.
? He will conduct his affairs with ALPA and its members in accordance with the rules laid down in the Constitution and By-Laws of ALPA and with the policies and interpretations promulgated therefrom. Whenever possible, he will attend all meetings of ALPA open to him and will take an active part in its activities and in meetings of other groups calculated to improve air safety and the standing of the profession.
? An Air Line Pilot shall refrain from any action whereby, for his personal benefit or gain, he take advantage of the confidence reposed in him by his fellow members. If he is called upon to represent ALPA in any dispute, he will do so to the best of his ability, fairly and fearlessly, relying on the influence and power of ALPA to protect him.
? He will regard himself as a debtor to his profession and ALPA, and will dedicate himself to their advancement. He will cooperate in the upholding of the profession by exchanging information and experience with his fellow pilots and by actively contributing to the work of professional groups and the technical press.​

An Air Line Pilot the honor of his profession is dear, and he will remember that his own character and conduct reflect honor or dishonor upon the profession.

? He will be a good citizen of his country, state, and community, taking an active part in their affairs, especially those dealing with the improvement of aviation facilities and the enhancement of air safety.
? He will conduct all his affairs in a manner that reflects credit on himself and his profession.
? He will remember that to his neighbors, friends, and acquaintances he represents both the profession and ALPA, and that his actions represent to them the conduct and character of all members of the profession and ALPA.
? He will realize that nothing more certainly fosters prejudices against and deprives the profession of its high public esteem and confidence than do breaches in the use of alcohol.
? He will not publish articles, give interviews, or permit his name to be used in any manner likely to bring discredit to another pilot, the airline industry, the profession, or ALPA.
? He will continue to keep abreast of aviation developments so that his skill and judgment, which heavily depend on such knowledge, may be of the highest order.​

Having Endeavored to his utmost to faithfully fulfill the obligations of the ALPA Code of Ethics and Canons for the Guidance of Air Line Pilots, a pilot may consider himself worthy to be called?an AIRLINE PILOT.

 

[kwick]

Seriously? Even though going through that route accomplishes nothing?

Not his decision to determine if another pilot is safe? Seriously? Are you saying that one pilot can't tell if another pilot is unsafe? I've made assessments of others for a very long time, as has everyone else including you. To suggest that he, or any other FO, is incapable of making honest evaluations of others' flying abilities is the height of arrogance. You sorely need a review of the code of ethics:

Code of Ethics

An Air Line Pilot will keep uppermost in his mind that the safety, comfort, and well-being of the passengers who entrust their lives to him are his first and greatest responsibility.

? He will never permit external pressures or personal desires to influence his judgment, nor will he knowingly do anything that could jeopardize flight safety.
? He will remember that an act of omission can be as hazardous as a deliberate act of commission, and he will not neglect any detail that contributes to the safety of his flight, or perform any operation in a negligent or careless manner.
? Consistent with flight safety, he will at all times operate his aircraft in a manner that will contribute to the comfort, peace of mind, and well-being of his passengers, instilling in them trust in him and the airline he represents.
? Once he has discharged his primary responsibility for the safety and comfort of his passengers, he will remember that they depend upon him to do all possible to deliver them to their destination at the scheduled time.
? If disaster should strike, he will take whatever action he deems necessary to protect the lives of his passengers and crew.​

An Air Line Pilot will faithfully discharge the duty he owes the airline that employs him and whose salary makes possible his way of life.

? He will do all within his powers to operate his aircraft efficiently and on schedule in a manner that will not cause damage or unnecessary maintenance.
? He will respect the officers, directors, and supervisors of his airline, remembering that respect does not entail subservience.
? He will faithfully obey all lawful directives given by his supervisors, but will insist and, if necessary, refuse to obey any directives that, in his considered judgment, are not lawful or will adversely affect flight safety. He will remember that in the final analysis the responsibility for safe completion of the flight rests upon his shoulders.
? He will not knowingly falsify any log or record, nor will he condone such action by other crew members.
? He will remember that a full month?s salary demands a full and fair month?s work. On his days off, he will not engage in any occupation or activity that will diminish his efficiency or bring discredit to his profession.
? He will realize that he represents the airline to all who meet him and will at all times keep his personal appearance and conduct above reproach.
? He will give his airline, its officers, directors, and supervisors the full loyalty that is their due, and will refrain from speaking ill of them. If he feels it necessary to reveal and correct conditions that are not conducive to safe operations and harmonious relations, he will direct his criticism to the proper authorities within ALPA.
? He will hold his airline?s business secrets in confidence, and will take care that they are not improperly revealed.​

An Air Line Pilot will accept the responsibilities as well as the rewards of command and will at all times so conduct himself both on duty and off as to instill and merit the confidence and respect of his crew, his fellow employees, and his associates within the profession.

? He will know and understand the duties of each member of his crew. If in command, he will be firm but fair, explicit yet tolerant of deviations that do not affect the safe and orderly completion of the flight. He will be efficient yet relaxed, so that the duties of the crew may be carried out in a harmonious manner.
? If in command, he will expect efficient performance of each crew member?s duties, yet he will overlook small discrepancies and refrain from unnecessary and destructive criticism, so that the crew member will retain his self-respect and cooperative attitude. A frank discussion of minor matters of technique and performance after the flight will create goodwill and a desire to be helpful, whereas sharp criticism and peremptory orders at the moment will result only in the breakdown of morale and an inefficient, halting performance of future duties.
? An Air Line Pilot will remember that his is a profession heavily dependent on training during regular operations and, if in command, will afford his flight crew members every reasonable opportunity, consistent with safety and efficiency, to learn and practice. He will endeavor to instill in his crew a sense of pride and responsibility. In making reports on the work and conduct of his crew members, he will avoid personal prejudices, make his reports factual and his criticisms constructive so that actions taken as a result of his reports will improve the knowledge and skill of his crew members, rather than bring discredit, endanger their livelihood, and threaten their standing in the profession.
? While in command, the Air Line Pilot will be mindful of the welfare of his crew. He will see to it that his crew are properly lodged and cared for, particularly during unusual operating conditions. When cancellations result in deadheading, he will ensure that proper arrangements are made for the transportation of his crew before he takes care of himself.​

An Air Line Pilot will conduct his affairs with other members of the profession and with ALPA in such a manner as to bring credit to the profession and ALPA as well as to himself.

? He will not falsely or maliciously injure the professional reputation, prospects, or job security of another pilot, yet if he knows of professional incompetence or conduct detrimental to the profession or to ALPA, he will not shrink from revealing this to the proper authorities within ALPA, so that the weak member may be brought up to the standards demanded, or ALPA and the profession alike may be rid of one unworthy to share its rewards.
? He will conduct his affairs with ALPA and its members in accordance with the rules laid down in the Constitution and By-Laws of ALPA and with the policies and interpretations promulgated therefrom. Whenever possible, he will attend all meetings of ALPA open to him and will take an active part in its activities and in meetings of other groups calculated to improve air safety and the standing of the profession.
? An Air Line Pilot shall refrain from any action whereby, for his personal benefit or gain, he take advantage of the confidence reposed in him by his fellow members. If he is called upon to represent ALPA in any dispute, he will do so to the best of his ability, fairly and fearlessly, relying on the influence and power of ALPA to protect him.
? He will regard himself as a debtor to his profession and ALPA, and will dedicate himself to their advancement. He will cooperate in the upholding of the profession by exchanging information and experience with his fellow pilots and by actively contributing to the work of professional groups and the technical press.​

An Air Line Pilot the honor of his profession is dear, and he will remember that his own character and conduct reflect honor or dishonor upon the profession.

? He will be a good citizen of his country, state, and community, taking an active part in their affairs, especially those dealing with the improvement of aviation facilities and the enhancement of air safety.
? He will conduct all his affairs in a manner that reflects credit on himself and his profession.
? He will remember that to his neighbors, friends, and acquaintances he represents both the profession and ALPA, and that his actions represent to them the conduct and character of all members of the profession and ALPA.
? He will realize that nothing more certainly fosters prejudices against and deprives the profession of its high public esteem and confidence than do breaches in the use of alcohol.
? He will not publish articles, give interviews, or permit his name to be used in any manner likely to bring discredit to another pilot, the airline industry, the profession, or ALPA.
? He will continue to keep abreast of aviation developments so that his skill and judgment, which heavily depend on such knowledge, may be of the highest order.​

Having Endeavored to his utmost to faithfully fulfill the obligations of the ALPA Code of Ethics and Canons for the Guidance of Air Line Pilots, a pilot may consider himself worthy to be called?an AIRLINE PILOT.

Where does it say that a pilot should by-pass the Professional Standards.
Safety or other committees set up to handle these issues.

Better yet, if you think these committees aren't doing their jobs, why don't you volunteer your time and help them do it better.

 

[kwick]

"If he knows of professional incompetence... he will not shrink from revealing this
to the proper authorities within ALPA"

That's the part that you must have overlooked.