Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[madjack]

There is plenty of greed on BOTH sides of the issue...really if 65 years is not enough time, 67 won't be either...the younger pilots need a shot...

 

[Mamma]

Again this is not about safety, it about greed and get out of my seat because I want your money. But that would sound greedy from the anti age 65 crowd, so they wave the safety flag because no one can be against safety. But they never want to apply the enhanced standards to anyone under 60 becuase it might effect them.

You don't see it as greed from the older crowd? Take your blinders off man! You say a young guy with a family and college debt is greedy because he wants to move up from an RJ after 10 years? The system is built around guys moving on at age 60. They got 5 more years and the young guys paid for it with stagnation, crappy pay and furloughs. Now the gummers say its not enough. They want the young guys to pay again for their greed. To top it all off, the young guys have to babysit many of them. You have some nerve to call the young guys greedy.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

You don't see it as greed from the older crowd? Take your blinders off man! You say a young guy with a family and college debt is greedy because he wants to move up from an RJ after 10 years? The system is built around guys moving on at age 60. They got 5 more years and the young guys paid for it with stagnation, crappy pay and furloughs. Now the gummers say its not enough. They want the young guys to pay again for their greed. To top it all off, the young guys have to babysit many of them. You have some nerve to call the young guys greedy.

Your greed is somehow different than any of the other greed? How's that entitlement thing working out for you?

 

[SIG600]

Again this is not about safety, it about greed and get out of my seat because I want your money. But that would sound greedy from the anti age 65 crowd, so they wave the safety flag because no one can be against safety. But they never want to apply the enhanced standards to anyone under 60 becuase it might effect them.

Bull********************. You guys knew your entire careers that 60 was where you were done. You built your career expectations on it, you always knew it was coming. Then when the goal posts get moved, you guys get a 5 year/multi million dollar windfall, you don't get to say "it was always mine you greedy little turds" It was never yours, it ALWAYS belonged to the guys behind you until. Just like it belonged to you when the guys ahead were forced out at 60. Nevermind the ruined careers and families of those guys behind you that were planning on the same progression who were then furloughed.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

Bull********************. You guys knew your entire careers that 60 was where you were done. You built your career expectations on it, you always knew it was coming. Then when the goal posts get moved, you guys get a 5 year/multi million dollar windfall, you don't get to say "it was always mine you greedy little turds" It was never yours, it ALWAYS belonged to the guys behind you until. Just like it belonged to you when the guys ahead were forced out at 60. Nevermind the ruined careers and families of those guys behind you that were planning on the same progression who were then furloughed.

Do you need a hug? Ribbon?

Here's an excerpt from the recent Time Magazine article entitled "The Me Me Me Generation":

"The incidence of narcissistic personality disorder is nearly three times as high for people in their 20s as for the generation that?s now 65 or older, according to the National Institutes of Health; 58% more college students scored higher on a narcissism scale in 2009 than in 1982. Millennials got so many participation trophies growing up that a recent study showed that 40% believe they should be promoted every two years, regardless of performance."

You want the brass ring, stomp your feet and whine like a puppy fresh off the teat, that will make it happen quicker.....

 

[Mamma]

Your greed is somehow different than any of the other greed? How's that entitlement thing working out for you?

What have I been entitled to? I've served 20 hard years in the military so I think I've earned my way Sport. What about you? It's all perspective anyway. The younger guys want to move up and the gummers want to stay. It's not about entitlement or greed its just the way our system is set up. If gummers want to stay longer, someone's gotta pay for it. That's all. Kind of hard to call young guys greedy or entitled when they have to pay.

 

[waveflyer]

As has been stated before on this forum, the Federal Air Surgeon (at the Age 60 ARC held by the FAA in 2006) noted that the present aero medical was functioning without need for change - the system catches problems before they are cockpit issues. As was also previously noted, those talking of stricter medicals (for older pilots one presumes) are thus addressing a non-issue AND simultaneously opening the door for thousands of younger pilots being disastrously exposed to the same enhanced medical standards. I'm sitting on an aircraft right now (as a pax) and watched a very fit 55+ year-old Captain board standing tall and looking alert. The 30-ish co-pilot, on the other hand, is badly overweight (monster gut hanging over his belt) , shuffled when he walked? He was lacking in posture, fitness, attitude and alertness. Whom might you suppose is monitoring whom on this flight? If the Air Surgeon says there is no issue, why open Pandora's Box?

Laker- I actually agree with this- and man, if I'm still as fit as I am now when I'm 60, and as sharp, then I sure wouldn't want a regulation telling me I have to retire if I didn't want to. And at 42, I can't tell you I would-
But as to your example- that's not unusual- food and food habits in america are awful- if that FO was 40-ish then I'd give you more credence- but flying is mental- his danger is of flat out H.A./stroking out, and looking like a slob- not in mentally staying up with the aircraft.
And truly, the problem does not lay with 80% of 60+ pilots- it's the 10-20% that are being carried.
Again, I ask- what percentage of pilots is it acceptable for me to DO THEIR JOB, in that awkward realm of captain defensiveness and FO lack of authority, for LESS money? If its not a problem for you guys at 20%_ what does it take? Half?
Or would you even admit it then?

Human beings are not good at assessing their age related decline-

I say fly til you die if that's what you want- but no captains after 60.

 

[Mamma]

So, this young fat slob is probably going to only get worse over time. Wonder what he will look like at 66 and captaining a A380.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

What have I been entitled to? I've served 20 hard years in the military so I think I've earned my way Sport. What about you? It's all perspective anyway. The younger guys want to move up and the gummers want to stay. It's not about entitlement or greed its just the way our system is set up. If gummers want to stay longer, someone's gotta pay for it. That's all. Kind of hard to call young guys greedy or entitled when they have to pay.

The system is what it is, whining and sniveling will not change it. I find no small amount of amusement that so many in this industry think that airplanes and the airline industry is their personal merry-go-round and that it exists to provide them with non-stop fun and games. If the 'gummers" want to stay until the legislated retirement age, so be it. All the sniveling and foot stomping will not change anything, and in fact might make you look immature.
So buck up, square your hat, snap to and say "yes sir, I will take the fat one, because I like them that way" In return, the gummer just might have a stroke while playing "hide the sausage" with the 26 year old F/A, and bingo you will be one seniority number closer to climbing on that 27 year old F/A.

Kind of hard to call young guys greedy or entitled when they have to pay.

What are they paying? Last time I checked they get paid to swing the gear. This statement is the very essence of the entitlement concept. If you went into the airline game instead of serving "20 hard years" you would be one of those gummers you hate so much.
If you want "credit" for your "20 hard years", its called a pension, not seniority entitlement.

 

[flyboyike]

The system is what it is, whining and sniveling will not change it. I find no small amount of amusement that so many in this industry think that airplanes and the airline industry is their personal merry-go-round and that it exists to provide them with non-stop fun and games. If the 'gummers" want to stay until the legislated retirement age, so be it.

In other words, it's OK for the industry to be the gummers' personal merry-go-round, just not mine.

 

[PBRstreetgang]

In other words, it's OK for the industry to be the gummers' personal merry-go-round, just not mine.

You just don't get it, it is what it is, and all the foot stomping and whining will not change anything. You want change, change the law through the legislative process, until then, the whining and sniveling may make you feel better but won't change anything. If you want validation then you have come to the right place, F/I provides some of the best, maybe the Genny will give you a big double breasted hug....

 

[Flopgut]

Do you need a hug? Ribbon?

Here's an excerpt from the recent Time Magazine article entitled "The Me Me Me Generation":

"The incidence of narcissistic personality disorder is nearly three times as high for people in their 20s as for the generation that?s now 65 or older, according to the National Institutes of Health; 58% more college students scored higher on a narcissism scale in 2009 than in 1982. Millennials got so many participation trophies growing up that a recent study showed that 40% believe they should be promoted every two years, regardless of performance."

You want the brass ring, stomp your feet and whine like a puppy fresh off the teat, that will make it happen quicker.....

The system is what it is, whining and sniveling will not change it. I find no small amount of amusement that so many in this industry think that airplanes and the airline industry is their personal merry-go-round and that it exists to provide them with non-stop fun and games. If the 'gummers" want to stay until the legislated retirement age, so be it. All the sniveling and foot stomping will not change anything, and in fact might make you look immature.
So buck up, square your hat, snap to and say "yes sir, I will take the fat one, because I like them that way" In return, the gummer just might have a stroke while playing "hide the sausage" with the 26 year old F/A, and bingo you will be one seniority number closer to climbing on that 27 year old F/A.

Your thesis does not match the reality of our specific situation. The old guys weren't going to get their "ribbon" [pension], so they stomped their feet, bawled and cried, until they got their way. They got the exact age increase they wanted. The rest of the profession absorbed the ill effects (which were vast) with admirable decorum. And now we're seeing that 65 was not enough for these old bastards. They want more.

At some point we have to cut the rope on these old guys. Money, seniority, extra years. It's all being wasted by them.

 

[flyboyike]

You just don't get it, it is what it is, and all the foot stomping and whining will not change anything. You want change, change the law through the legislative process, until then, the whining and sniveling may make you feel better but won't change anything. If you want validation then you have come to the right place, F/I provides some of the best, maybe the Genny will give you a big double breasted hug....

Well, the gummers are the ones trying to change it (again), not me. And they're doing it by whining about how five more years wasn't enough, but two more will be for sure. But again, it's okay for them, because they've earned it, right?

 

[Mamma]

The system is what it is, whining and sniveling will not change it. I find no small amount of amusement that so many in this industry think that airplanes and the airline industry is their personal merry-go-round and that it exists to provide them with non-stop fun and games. If the 'gummers" want to stay until the legislated retirement age, so be it. All the sniveling and foot stomping will not change anything, and in fact might make you look immature.
So buck up, square your hat, snap to and say "yes sir, I will take the fat one, because I like them that way" In return, the gummer just might have a stroke while playing "hide the sausage" with the 26 year old F/A, and bingo you will be one seniority number closer to climbing on that 27 year old F/A.


What are they paying? Last time I checked they get paid to swing the gear. This statement is the very essence of the entitlement concept. If you went into the airline game instead of serving "20 hard years" you would be one of those gummers you hate so much.
If you want "credit" for your "20 hard years", its called a pension, not seniority entitlement.

Based on your apathetic take on things, I take it you don't vote either. Probably a good thing. I did reserves my last 10 so no pension for awhile if ever. So lets discuss this "one way" entitlement you like to bring up. Just who feels they are entitled? The young FO at Skywest who will be stagnated or the older Delta FO who will enjoy 5-10 years of stagnation caused by age increases? OR, maybe the old guy who just can't hang it up like all those before him did. Just maybe the age 65 guy, who got a 5 year windfall feels entitled to another 5 years on the backs of those behind him. In case you didn't know, this is a bulletin board designed to discuss issues. If you are upset over what you perceive as whining, go somewhere else where everyone plays with unicorns and dances in green fields under bright rainbows. Or come here for reality and listen to what others are thinking. For the record, I am ok with age 65. Just not an extension.

 

[Flopgut]

The system is what it is, whining and sniveling will not change it.


What are they paying? Last time I checked they get paid to swing the gear. This statement is the very essence of the entitlement concept. If you went into the airline game instead of serving "20 hard years" you would be one of those gummers you hate so much.
If you want "credit" for your "20 hard years", its called a pension, not seniority entitlement.

Not hard for me to recall the effort to change 60 to 65. Talk about "whining and sniveling". The second part? Can't believe you wrote that. Yip mentioned the 95 year old WW2 veteran earlier. Other than many decades, what's the difference between Mamma and a WW2 vet?! Why in the hell is ok that we cherish one and kick the other in the teeth?!