Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[Mamma]

A lot of good Americans died fighting against your type of
discrimination!

Yep! And we didn't stop when the Germans attacked Pearl Harbor either!

 

[Mamma]

You got ahead because of DISCRIMINATION, do you get it?

Just because you think you're better than Blacks, or women, or
other minorities, doesn't work anymore!

Your thinking is not accepted anymore.

Join the twenty-first century man, and lose the attitude.

Nazis and KKK members aren't that popular on the flight deck anymore.

Grow up!

Drinking and posting can be a bad mix as evidenced here.

 

[sleepy]

I spent a lot of time in the 91 and 135 world. I never met a sharp pilot who couldn't fly past airline retirement age if they really wanted to. However, there are a great many who didn't/don't get that choice. They are typically the pilots with marginal stick skills or personality problems. They are, for the most part, the ones who pushed the age increase to 65 (and are still pushing it). So what was true with 60 is no less true with 65. The sharp ones will have an opportunity. The goofballs will keep bawling for more airline years be given to them.

I agree with you. Being in Part 91 we can fire any pilot who doesn't perform regardless of age. I guess in the unionized airlines it isn't so easy to get rid of poor performers? But they still have to get a First Class medical and pass their checkrides I guess?

 

[Andy]

And a lot were helped.

Long term, ALL airline pilots' career was extended. Spare me your self-centered and short-sighted angst. You were with the wrong airline and the wrong place in space and time. It happens.

We've all seen hardship in this career. Blame it on Carter and deregulation. In the meantime, calling me (my generation) narcissistic won't cut it. We've seen too much to be impressed.

The ONLY ones helped by this were those about to turn 60 and those too stupid to save for retirement.

Question: why is it GOOD that people now have to work longer? Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?

You're a narcissist. You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving. I pointed out that MANY suffered due to your generation's push to raise retirement age. And it's not just those that were furloughed.

You got ahead because of DISCRIMINATION, do you get it?

Just because you think you're better than Blacks, or women, or
other minorities, doesn't work anymore!

Your thinking is not accepted anymore.

Join the twenty-first century man, and lose the attitude.

Nazis and KKK members aren't that popular on the flight deck anymore.

Grow up!

Wow. You're in dire need of a psych eval. This isn't merely jumping the shark; it's bizzarro world. YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women; there were no barriers to minorities when I started flying commercially. When you were hired, there weren't any commercial women pilots and the number of black pilots could be counted on your fingers.

 

[laker4284]

The ONLY ones helped by this were those about to turn 60 and those too stupid to save for retirement.

Question: why is it GOOD that people now have to work longer? Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?

You're a narcissist. You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving. I pointed out that MANY suffered due to your generation's push to raise retirement age. And it's not just those that were furloughed.


...YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women; there were no barriers to minorities when I started flying commercially. When you were hired, there weren't any commercial women pilots and the number of black pilots could be counted on your fingers.

Wow. What a disappointment. One might expect better of you, Andy, but in these posts you (maybe?) showed your true inner self.

Clearly, the "ONLY ones" who gained in the age change were NOT those turning 60 or "those too stupid to save for retirement". Those who gained in the age change were those who stood for the "right to work" principle, many since they were in their 30s; or the thousands who lost a career and had to start over in the aftermath of deregulation; or those who lost their pensions post 9/11. The list goes on. Were these pilots all "stupid"?

I seem to recall that the United guys lost their pensions (or the bulk of them) and, following that, there was some kind of asset "distribution" to the entire pilot group. I also recall that the asset was an "equal" distribution and that the older guys, who had lost their pensions, got nothing extra to help replace them. They came to Washington, in force, with knowledge, smarts and money - highly motivated to recapture some of what they lost....and they had a bitter anger at the "younger" pilots who they felt sold them out. You're United, right Andy? One of the "younger" guys? You might want to look into the mirror and ask yourself, "What's fair, what's right?" Because the way things shook out, you guys created part of the problem that sent senior United pilots to Washington.

Plus: They weren't "stupid". They kicked some serious ALPA and APA butt while they were there!

This is rich: "Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?"

Firstly the last refuge of someone who has lost the fight is to be a name-caller. You label people as "stupid" (yet they beat you in DC); you label me a "loser who has no life outside of work." You say I am a "narcissist".

My wife is sitting next to me, smiling. I'm laughing!

Hikes, family, friends, golf, boats, photo-archiving, cruising a forum or two...pretty much the same stuff I've always done only more so at this stage of my life. Oh, and I was careful with my money and recovered nicely in my second airline career. I've always supported the age change...and it wasn't based primarily on money. I don't like the government decreeing (based on nothing or faulty info) when or my peers career should end. It's the exact same principle that had ALPA (a collective membership of thousands, all injured by the age change in 1960) fighting on Capitol Hill and in court for twenty years to reverse the Age 60 Rule.

Still, I gotta say, it's kind of cheesy of you to do the name-calling thing.

Clean miss: "You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving."

Not much praise for my comments to be found here or the countdown thread. None expected on these threads. It's even harder to find fragile egos among pilots. From my early posts here I was adding facts to a discussion that was woefully short of facts and long on feelings and emotion. The truth seems to be that guys like you believe what they want to believe and the factual RECORD is largely ignored (if it was ever consulted to start with).

For example, in other posts you went on and on about your "sources" telling you the rule wouldn't change; you didn't know about the FAA's final (and damning ) section of their age study; and you seemed not to have read the age ARC report. Your "source" was misguided, or misinformed, or clueless or incompetent. However YOU want to judge his information it is worth posting on the forum for others that he was waaaaaaay off base. For you to still talk as though the guy had a clue is a mystery to many of us.

But let's finish with this (not directed directly to me but, rather, my generation): "YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women..."

So I'm not only "stupid", a "loser" and a "narcissist"...I'm also a RACIST as well?! Or at least my generation is? Wow! Well, that's really climbing down in the gutter; not to mention it fails to address societal history accurately.

Not to worry, my time here is up. I have to go stare in the mirror a bit (narcisisst-like), maybe make up some anti-black/anti-woman material my friends and I can distribute (covertly of course); a stare into my financial statements pensively, wondering how I could have gone so badly wrong. NOT!

The last refuge is name calling. Something worth remembering.

 

[Dan Roman]

I don't get how anyone can blame the pilot's who had their pensions stolen from them with no time to make up for the loss as greedy? YGTBSM. No one at UAL or USAir could possibly have been expected to foresee the pensions they rightfully planned on would go away. If their is any narcissistic perspective at all on this subject it's the perspective that "they" should have planned better and are greedy by flying to 65 to try and rectify the huge hit they took on their retirement. These are pilots in their 50's, that lost their pension with almost no warning it would happen. I can't imagine what it would be like to be over 55 and go from having a $150,000 dollar a year pension cut to $40,000. And just having a couple years left to work. Yet you guys call them greedy???? The generation that fought the Lorenzos, Deregulation, managements attempts at a B scale, the generation that made huge gains on how well a furloughed pilot is treated. The generation that gave us huge advances in CRM and created a working environment in the cockpit that is way safer and more pleasant to fly in etc etc. I could go on and on but you get the picture, every generation contributes in it's own way and none of them are perfect. But saying a guy who had his pension robbed at 55 is greedy for flying to 65 and being unfair to the guy on furlough (who now also has 5 extra years to work if he wants) sounds pretty self absorbed to me.
Everyone was given the opportunity to fly an extra 5 years. Some do, some don't. But the guys who had their pensions stolen in their 50's deserve and need this chance more than anyone. How sad some junior guy would gladly see him tossed out at 60 with no pension just to see his furlough shortened.

 

[Dan Roman]

I guess I'm on a roll here and I haven't even had a glass of wine yet! I also take umbrage with the perspective that 60 is old. We have plenty of pilots over 60, no one complains about them. I'm at Hawaiian, we are small enough that most everyone knows everyone else. No one here complains about the over 60's. Saying a guy doesn't have a life because he flies past 60 is a joke. You have a problem with a guy in his 60's that likes to fly? We all enjoy either good or a great schedule at Hawaiian. I like my job and I like my days off even more. But saying because I like to fly to Auckland or Sydney and go surfing, fly to PDX and go snowboarding or go to JFK and hear some good music I don't have a life? Pretty fun date to take my wife to SFO for a day! Done right, this is still a great job that creates a nice balance in someones life. Saying you are in a hurry to quit so you can do nothing but surf, golf or whatever may be indicative of needing to get a life too. It's all about balance.

 

[Dan Roman]

I spent a lot of time in the 91 and 135 world. I never met a sharp pilot who couldn't fly past airline retirement age if they really wanted to. However, there are a great many who didn't/don't get that choice. They are typically the pilots with marginal stick skills or personality problems. They are, for the most part, the ones who pushed the age increase to 65 (and are still pushing it). So what was true with 60 is no less true with 65. The sharp ones will have an opportunity. The goofballs will keep bawling for more airline years be given to them.

Well Flop, you certainly aren't going to agree with me. In fact you called me a "scab" because of the opinion I have on the previous two posts (done lots of Union work and never ever considered or will I ever consider crossing a picket line).
But I'm a big believer that peoples opinions say more about themselves than the people they are opining on. F'O's that always complain about Captains tend to be the weak F/O's just like Captains that are always complaining about F/O's are usually weak Captains. I know the over 60 Captains at my airline are not even remotely considered weaker here, so I have to wonder about someone who gets on here and says they carry the older guys. The F/O may not be as good as they think they are and the older guy may not be as bad as they think.

 

[General Lee]

Dan,

There is a fine line between pension "recovery" and pure greed. Canada has it correct now, at 65 all Capts move from the left seat to the right seat of a narrowbody, or "cruise officer" on a widebody that never takes off or lands. We'll see how much they do it "for the love of the job" when they get bumped back to the MD88 for 4 legs a day through LGA including walk arounds. If the FAA ever allows that, they may look at that model up North. It would preserve upgrades, but affect new hires, although most might retire after a few months of Dayton and Rapid City layovers.



Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[kwick]

The ONLY ones helped by this were those about to turn 60 and those too stupid to save for retirement.

Question: why is it GOOD that people now have to work longer? Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?

You're a narcissist. You came on here seeking praise for raising retirement age. You didn't get the response that your fragile ego was craving. I pointed out that MANY suffered due to your generation's push to raise retirement age. And it's not just those that were furloughed.



Wow. You're in dire need of a psych eval. This isn't merely jumping the shark; it's bizzarro world. YOUR generation discriminated against blacks and women; there were no barriers to minorities when I started flying commercially. When you were hired, there weren't any commercial women pilots and the number of black pilots could be counted on your fingers.

It's obvious that the reason that you
never made it higher in the Air Force
Is that you are an obvious bigot.

To blame your lack of career advancement
on those pilots senior to you is an
indication of a lack of character.

It's never too late to learn and grow.

I hope the best for you and that you
learn to deal with your insecurities.

 

[727gm]

What about the guy who's 52 and already has 30 years in, with 26 years as captain? Is HE greedy for staying at his airline? Does his left seat BELONG to someone who is 50, furloughed, and has no PIC time yet, because it would be more fair that way?

Work as long as you like, and the seat is yours and no one else's, until you give it up, or hit the FAR limit.

 

[pilotyip]

Well Flop, you certainly aren't going to agree with me. In fact you called me a "scab" because of the opinion I have on the previous two posts (done lots of Union work and never ever considered or will I ever consider crossing a picket line).

Welcome to the club, the ultimate insult on FI when the responder doesn't like a post. This usually happens when you are dealing with an ugly reality that doesn't fit into the fantasy world of the poster. Like no one has worked any harder than wavy to ensure a place in her career, that luck and timing played no part in her success.

 

[pilotyip]

:beer:

 

[Flopgut]

But I'm a big believer that peoples opinions say more about themselves than the people they are opining on. F'O's that always complain about Captains tend to be the weak F/O's just like Captains that are always complaining about F/O's are usually weak Captains. I know the over 60 Captains at my airline are not even remotely considered weaker here, so I have to wonder about someone who gets on here and says they carry the older guys. The F/O may not be as good as they think they are and the older guy may not be as bad as they think.

I've been a 737 captain 4 out of the last 6 years. Took a 2 year break to fly a widebody and have a good schedule. I don't know specifically what you've done, but I can crap a pile just as big as you on most things. And on this issue, I'm pretty sure I have a much wider range of experience factoring into my opinion.

Today's weak to semi weak FOs, are the same type guys who go out and hustle an age increase when they are old captains. They are not different pilots Dan, they are the same. 1 in 10 pilots past 60 are truly appreciated and are carrying their fair share. 90% don't give .02 cents about anyone but themselves and are just putting in time. They're just like the lottery winner who's broke again 5 years after winning.

 

[Flopgut]

I don't get how anyone can blame the pilot's who had their pensions stolen from them with no time to make up for the loss as greedy? YGTBSM. No one at UAL or USAir could possibly have been expected to foresee the pensions they rightfully planned on would go away.

I could not disagree more Dan. My father lost his pension, income and insurance on the same day more than 25 years ago. It happened to a lot of pilots. How could they not forsee this possibility?! My dad rolled up his sleeves and went to work. He didn't go to Washington and beg like your generation.