Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[waveflyer]

Is safety just about deadly accidents, yip?

Sounds like management...

 

[SIG600]

To the best of my memory there was one 121 fatal accident. Colgan 3407. Please correct me if I am wrong Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

You do realize that those "safest 5 years" you tout, had the same pilots in the years prior?

Almost to a man (or woman) on here, there are increasing instances of older captains losing their grip on command. Buddy of mine said his 64 year old captain slept two hours one leg last week.

 

[Flopgut]

Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

Except that the age change crowd got the exact retirement age increase they were asking for 5.5 years ago! Just about the biggest windfall any small group of a larger group of professionals has ever been handed in this Country. A Country who's birthday happens to be today. How about instead of carrying on with your ageism crap, you sit down and read the Declaration of Independence today. Then ask yourself if, in view of what has been done in the last 6 years for old pilots, does this Country owe them any more?

 

[kwick]

Except that the age change crowd got the exact retirement age increase they were asking for 5.5 years ago! Just about the biggest windfall any small group of a larger group of professionals has ever been handed in this Country. A Country who's birthday happens to be today. How about instead of carrying on with your ageism crap, you sit down and read the Declaration of Independence today. Then ask yourself if, in view of what has been done in the last 6 years for old pilots, does this Country owe them any more?

Okay, you want to discriminate against Blacks, Jews, Females, what else?

We get it, you're a redneck Nazi, that wants to benefit by discriminating
against others. Just go away!

Earn it on your own, and not at someone else's expense!

 

[Flopgut]

Okay, you want to discriminate against Blacks, Jews, Females, what else?

We get it, you're a redneck Nazi, that wants to benefit by discriminating
against others. Just go away!

Earn it on your own, and not at someone else's expense!

I am a redneck, but that's all you got right.

 

[Flopgut]

Be interesting to know what the founding fathers would think about there being an amendment to the Constitution they wrote called "Fair treatment for experienced pilots". Written by a bunch of pilots who can only rationalize their craven, greedy effort by telling the rest of us "Life isn't fair"...

 

[Abernathy]

To the best of my memory there was one 121 fatal accident. Colgan 3407. Please correct me if I am wrong Again all of this is pure get out if my seat the same as 6 years ago

Remember AF447?

Here's another big one from 2010 that is largely unknown outside of Asia and Europe.

AirBlue Flight 202 (Google it), an Airbus A321, was captained by a 62 year old, 35 year veteran 747 Captain who had retired from the national airline and wanted to keep flying, and joined a new Airbus operator. Long story short, while trying to fly a circle to land approach (at the completion of a flight that he ironically spent berating and humiliating his Air Force Graduate young FO, testing him on knowledge and bragging about his flying superiority), he ignored 21 EGPWS alerts and was described in the official report as "uneasy and confused" ..and crashed into the side of a hill, killing 150 or so passengers and crew.

The report also commented that it was apparent that the younger, sharper FO was fully aware of what was going on, but due to cultural sensitivities and the fact that the Captain just spent the last couple hours trying to humiliate him, he wasn't able to get through to the captain. Nor was ATC.

Quote from the article on wikipedia, which contains quotes from the investigation: In particular, the report noted that the captain ignored or did not properly respond to a multitude of Air Traffic Control directives and automated cabin warning systems. The report also claimed that the first officer passively accepted the captain's actions, after the captain on multiple occasions took a "harsh, snobbish and contrary" tone with the first officer and "berated" him.

Yip, you can fight for your generation all you want. But older and more experienced as a combination doesn't always equal safer. Remember that old saying: you can't teach an old dog new tricks? What happens when 61 year old 737 CA tries to upgrade to a 787 or A330? Maybe nothing. But in reality, at what age would those skills be more easily learned and practiced? What about a 70 year old 777 Captain after flying a 14 hour segment trying to deal with an emergency during an approach into some mountainous region?

The reason that accident is so relevant isn't because it happened to a crew with a captain who just "happend" to be over 60. There is a solid possibility that this crash occurred because this captain was past his expiration date as a professional aviator.

 

[Bringupthebird]

On Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 10:59 AM, USAPA Government Affairs Committee ‪<[email protected]>‬ wrote:



Boom.... Roasted. :smash:

But that's coming from a hoax union, so...

Yet one more thing that USAPA (who demands the highest dues of any pilot union) is irrelevant about.

 

[Mamma]

Okay, you want to discriminate against Blacks, Jews, Females, what else?

We get it, you're a redneck Nazi, that wants to benefit by discriminating
against others. Just go away!

Earn it on your own, and not at someone else's expense!

What's wrong with discriminating based on cause? I don't have pedophiles over to babysit my children. I discriminate against them. I don't invite my recovering alcoholic friends over to keggers. I discriminate against them. I don't want 80 year old firemen or police officers. I discriminate against them. I don't want women in the infantry. Once again, I discriminate. But, the point is all my reasons have cause. People discriminate every day as to who they hang out with, who they date, where they shop and so on. So, get over your Nazi names and hyperbole. Pilots should not command aircraft over the age of 65. They really should not be doing it past the age of 62. If you are a captain, you have no clue what you are talking about. If you are an FO that has to fly with these guys and you have a hint of observation skills, you would probably discriminate too.

 

[pilotyip]

Remember AF447?

AirBlue Flight 202 (Google it), an Airbus A321,

I said part 121, to the best of knowledge, neither of these were 121. But this is also Cherry Picking. We sight could many more accidents that happened with pilots under age 60. All pure get out of my seat.

 

[Abernathy]

All pure get out of my seat.

Yip, it's the other way around. It's your generation that has "get out of my seat" syndrome (and get off my lawn syndrome). Those seats belonged to the next generation of pilots. .as they always had.. but it was the boomers who told the rest of us "get out of my seat". And then had the balls to sit there and act like they were entitled to it because they think they were the only generation who'd "paid their dues". Try spending 7 years in the right seat at a regional. You can tell me all about the guys who sat sideways for 10 years but they weren't making regional wages back then.

Air Traffic Controllers retire at 57. Why do you think that is? Because they have to think quickly and stay sharp. And you lose that in old age. It's part of the natural cycle. Accept it.

 

[waveflyer]

Yip, why won't you answer my questions?

 

[pilotyip]

Yip, why won't you answer my questions?

What question was that?, you have sent me many. Besides it is normally futile, you have already made up your mind and any answers I give would be quickly refuted. Besides my answers don't really count, after all would would an old guy working for a non-sked know anyway.

 

[texman]

Yip, A FA said "It is unfair that our pilots have to retire" I explained it is fair. The pilots before the generation that is now retiring had to retire. So those pilots reaped the benefits, so should we. But then I explained to her it is also a safety thing. She understood, then went on to tell me some of our 70 plus FA's are losing it. I have been in a cockpit with many 65 plus pilots some still have it, but most are losing the mental capacity to handle quick thinking. I have seen the 1,000 mile stare in their eyes. I don't want to babysit. Babysit while the guy in the right seat is getting paid more. That doesn't make any sense. I think 65 is the right age, after that it is time to move on.

 

[pilotyip]

Just had a 95 year old pilot fly our B-17, still has a current FAA second class medical. Did a good job. He has been flying since 1935. Was a B-17 Instructor pilot during WWII. He told us the the FAA won't let him fly on his 135 certificate anymore. So maybe the Feds have an upper limit of 95 for 135 ops. Good to hear I have aanother 25 years of flyign the DA-20 in fromt of me. ha ha

 

[texman]

Just had a 95 year old pilot fly our B-17, still has a current FAA second class medical. Did a good job. He has been flying since 1935. Was a B-17 Instructor pilot during WWII. He told us the the FAA won't let him fly on his 135 certificate anymore. So maybe the Feds have an upper limit of 95 for 135 ops. Good to hear I have aanother 25 years of flyign the DA-20 in fromt of me. ha ha

I think it is great that he can do that, and for you to fly a DA-20. You know and I know that their are some great pilots that are of age and wisdom. I have learned so much from them. A friend of mine at SWA said it is a genetic thing not so much a age thing. Throw in dementia and other factors Safety is compromised. I have flown Freight/Charter-135,91,91K,121. The 121 Asset is worth 2 billion dollars. Most important, you have more souls on board.

You must work for ActiveAero (USA JET)?????

 

[Flopgut]

Just had a 95 year old pilot fly our B-17, still has a current FAA second class medical. Did a good job. He has been flying since 1935. Was a B-17 Instructor pilot during WWII. He told us the the FAA won't let him fly on his 135 certificate anymore. So maybe the Feds have an upper limit of 95 for 135 ops. Good to hear I have aanother 25 years of flyign the DA-20 in fromt of me. ha ha

Really old pilots in really old airplanes, what could go wrong? [Reno] We've had a lot of accidents recently in the airshow/exhibition flying community. I certainly don't want to see that sort of flying end, but the margins for error are going to have to be visited. It seems that way... Although too, I have to say often it seems there is someone in the equation who is bound and determined to push something too far just to prove a point. We're seeing it right now with age.

Be careful with that thing Yip.

 

[pilotyip]

Really old pilots in really old airplanes, what could go wrong? [Reno] We've had a lot of accidents recently in the airshow/exhibition flying community. I certainly don't want to see that sort of flying end, but the margins for error are going to have to be visited. It seems that way... Although too, I have to say often it seems there is someone in the equation who is bound and determined to push something too far just to prove a point. We're seeing it right now with age.

Be careful with that thing Yip.

Nothing to worry about, the 95 year old was flying with a 62 year old DAL Captain.

 

[Flopgut]

Please tell me those weren't the only two pilots on board?

 

[jonjuan]

Nothing to worry about, the 95 year old was flying with a 62 year old DAL Captain.

Who was monitoring the ventilator on the old guy?