Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[Flopgut]

You seem to think some pilot who hadn't planned well enough to "get on with his life" after losing his pension is irresponsible, but a junior pilot that has a mortgage he can't afford if he gets furloughed (junior pilots get furloughed a lot in this business, I had 2) is a victim?

No Dan, I used to believe BOTH were irresponsible and BOTH ought to fend for themselves. Then I witnessed the wrinkly old bastards pull the ladder up in the middle of the night to save their own skin.

 

[Dan Roman]

No Dan, I used to believe BOTH were irresponsible and BOTH ought to fend for themselves. Then I witnessed the wrinkly old bastards pull the ladder up in the middle of the night to save their own skin.

Well, as you said, you work for a different airline and a different culture, but I'm saying as a whole, flying to 65 was the right thing to do and the timing was right what with the sudden emergence of DC only plans. Congrates to your Dad for picking himself up when he (I'm guessing) got screwed by Lorenzo. Or Maybe he was Braniff? Anyway, the same example can be found throughout the ranks of furloughed pilots too. I know of a lot of examples of furloughed pilots using their forced break as an opportunity with the added comfort of knowing they had a number with an airline. Many started side business's, some took lucrative overseas jobs and some got advanced degrees. For both groups it's a challenge, and no one individuals success or horror story really defines what is right for all. But I still say allowing the opportunity for pilots to go to 65 was the right thing for everyone and critically right for the 58 YO who had his pension stolen.

(I hope you don't refer to your Dad as a wrinkly old bastard)

 

[flyboyike]

CRM is a two way street. If you are having problems flying with most guys over 50 you may very well be the problem. I've flown with enough pilots from all demographics to know most pilots from any age group are mostly easy to get along with and more often than not a pleasure to fly with. There is always a few that are a royal pain, but they are few and far between.
If you can only get along with guys in your age bracket that probably says more about you than them.

Just stating a fact.

 

[kwick]

Just stating a fact.

These guys are just stating a fact, too.

If you're not open to imput, you might be projecting that at your
interviews.

It might be that you're young and a bit immature to get hired right
now.

Hang in there, but be willing to accept the advice of those you hope
to follow.

 

[Flopgut]

Well, as you said, you work for a different airline and a different culture, but I'm saying as a whole, flying to 65 was the right thing to do and the timing was right what with the sudden emergence of DC only plans. Congrates to your Dad for picking himself up when he (I'm guessing) got screwed by Lorenzo. Or Maybe he was Braniff?

Ok, understand he did fly airplanes throughout. It didn't matter what the airline retirement age was, he flew and he kept flying for a living til about age 63 or so. Again, the airline retirement age was not a factor. Furthermore it really is not a factor now either. Age 60 or age 65 or whatever, if you can fly and you want to fly, it's out there. Always has been Dan. No one needed the retirement age to increase to simply fly. They needed and wanted it to stay senior and fly airplanes. That's the 800lb gorilla in the room.

The age change is a campaign for another pilot's seniority. Pure and simple.

 

[pilotyip]

The age change is a campaign for another pilot's seniority. Pure and simple.

As opposed to the "get out of my Seat" campaign for another pilot's seniority.

 

[727gm]

As opposed to the "get out of my Seat" campaign for another pilot's seniority.

Exactly. And the age change campaign benefits EVERYBODY. The "get out of my Seat" campaign is by shortsighted people who should've got hired earlier instead of staying at their previous job so long.

 

[texman]

Exactly. And the age change campaign benefits EVERYBODY. The "get out of my Seat" campaign is by shortsighted people who should've got hired earlier instead of staying at their previous job so long.

BS! The generation before us reaped the benefits from the retired 60 year old so why not us??????

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Because you aren't a Baby Boomer and they are, which just makes them better than, more worthy, deserving, and just than the rest of us. They are entitled to benefit from the rules and then change the rules those rules no longer benefit them. If you don't agree with them they then call you a bigot, or Nazi or racist. These are the same folks that brought us scoped out 19 then 30 then 50 now 72 seat flying when they started at mainline in those same size airplanes. They also brought us B scale. It's all good as long as it benefits them. I'm on board the boat so let's pull up the ladder!

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Exactly. And the age change campaign benefits EVERYBODY. The "get out of my Seat" campaign is by shortsighted people who should've got hired earlier instead of staying at their previous job so long.

I did get hired "earlier." Can you please explain to me how I benefit from the rule change?

The rule change bought me 5 more years in my current position, which is happens to be FO. My upgrade has been delayed by approximately 5 years. Now, in order to get the same number of years as a captain, I HAVE to work to 65. Thanks for shoving that down my throat.

Please explain to me why I'm shortsighted. How does delaying my upgrade by 5 years benefit me and my family?

How about we operate under the same rules our entire career. Only airline pilots hired after the rule change get to stay until 65, this way no pilot benefits at the expense of another.

 

[waveflyer]

My point is how much empirical evidence do we need to know how that generation is and has been and respond accordingly- we need to get as organized and do work on our own behalf - and ********************ing fight them proactively

 

[Freebrd]

Now, in order to get the same number of years as a captain, I HAVE to work to 65. Thanks for shoving that down my throat..

Mmm who says YOU have to fly 'til 65? Don't think so, that would be YOUR choice right?

 

[waveflyer]

Mmm who says YOU have to fly 'til 65? Don't think so, that would be YOUR choice right?

You're slow aren't you?

 

[flyboyike]

Because you aren't a Baby Boomer and they are, which just makes them better than, more worthy, deserving, and just than the rest of us. They are entitled to benefit from the rules and then change the rules those rules no longer benefit them. If you don't agree with them they then call you a bigot, or Nazi or racist. These are the same folks that brought us scoped out 19 then 30 then 50 now 72 seat flying when they started at mainline in those same size airplanes. They also brought us B scale. It's all good as long as it benefits them. I'm on board the boat so let's pull up the ladder!

That's the feeling I get, too, but then I'm "immature and not open to iMput"(sic).

 

[pilotyip]

Because you aren't a Baby Boomer and they are, which just makes them better than, more worthy, deserving, and just than the rest of us. They are entitled to benefit from the rules and then change the rules those rules no longer benefit them. If you don't agree with them they then call you a bigot, or Nazi or racist. These are the same folks that brought us scoped out 19 then 30 then 50 now 72 seat flying when they started at mainline in those same size airplanes. They also brought us B scale. It's all good as long as it benefits them. I'm on board the boat so let's pull up the ladder!

Because that is how it work in a union airline, the senior guys protect themselves. Someone you too will be senior

 

[flyboyike]

Someone you too will be senior

What?

 

[GhettoBeechjet]

Because that is how it work in a union airline, the senior guys protect themselves. Someone you too will be senior

First this whole discussion is about a change in Federal Law and ICAO standard not a union issue. Second in my world it isn't about only protecting my own interests but what is best for the for the group and profession as a whole. For example I was flying with a Sr. Captain and discussing why our reserve issues need to be corrected in this contract. He disagreed and then asked why I cared because I wasn't on reserve. I don't think you could draw a better picture of differing generational thinking.

 

[SIG600]

Because you aren't a Baby Boomer and they are, which just makes them better than, more worthy, deserving, and just than the rest of us. They are entitled to benefit from the rules and then change the rules those rules no longer benefit them. If you don't agree with them they then call you a bigot, or Nazi or racist. These are the same folks that brought us scoped out 19 then 30 then 50 now 72 seat flying when they started at mainline in those same size airplanes. They also brought us B scale. It's all good as long as it benefits them. I'm on board the boat so let's pull up the ladder!

Nailed it.

 

[CesnaCaptn]

Mmm who says YOU have to fly 'til 65? Don't think so, that would be YOUR choice right?

You missed my point or didn't comprehend my post. I said in order to get the same number of years as captain I have to fly to 65. I didn't say I have to fly to 65. I realize I have that choice.

All captains when the rule changed could choose to be a captain for 5 EXTRA years. I don't have that choice. Do you understand that? Gummers got to make a choice young pilots don't get to make. My choice is work until I'm 65 so I'm a captain the same number of years as before the rule changed or retire "early" and be a captain for less time.

 

[Flopgut]

As opposed to the "get out of my Seat" campaign for another pilot's seniority.

How about you put your money where your mouth is and hire some of these old guys you think are so great. Matter of fact, hire only these old guys who want things handed to them and think it's their right to stab younger pilots in the back. You tell your superior that you want to hire only pilots who are 70+ because you're convinced their special. Do that and see how long you can keep the doors open to that place.