Age limit will increase to 67 by years end.

[Flopgut]

My point is how much empirical evidence do we need to know how that generation is and has been and respond accordingly- we need to get as organized and do work on our own behalf - and ********************ing fight them proactively

I've thought the same way Wave, but the problem is these old guys can go to a place you and I would not. They have no floor to how low they can stoop. The pilots who want to raise the age are the type people who can not stop admiring themselves. That kind of person with that kind of character flaw doesn't have the restraint normal people do.Best revenge: Do what we're doing. Be good pilots and employees. Have regard for our fellow pilots and try to pass this profession on better than we got it. BTW: These airlines look pretty good financially these days. Few more years and these airlines might have to start paying *really* well. The old guys won't be getting much or any of that. Old is old. They are done.

 

[pilotyip]

Because you aren't a Baby Boomer and they are, which just makes them better than, more worthy, deserving, and just than the rest of us. They are entitled to benefit from the rules and then change the rules those rules no longer benefit them. If you don't agree with them they then call you a bigot, or Nazi or racist. These are the same folks that brought us scoped out 19 then 30 then 50 now 72 seat flying when they started at mainline in those same size airplanes. They also brought us B scale. It's all good as long as it benefits them. I'm on board the boat so let's pull up the ladder!

B scale, scope were not deals worked out by unions to protect the senior guys?

How about you put your money where your mouth is and hire some of these old guys you think are so great. Matter of fact, hire only these old guys who want things handed to them and think it's their right to stab younger pilots in the back. You tell your superior that you want to hire only pilots who are 70+ because you're convinced their special. Do that and see how long you can keep the doors open to that place.

We have hired guys approaching 60. Bunches in the their 50's.

The old guys won't be getting much or any of that. Old is old. They are done.

And if things work out, you too may be old someday.

 

[Andy]

... or the thousands who lost a career and had to start over in the aftermath of deregulation; or those who lost their pensions post 9/11. The list goes on. Were these pilots all "stupid"?

Yes, if they didn't save. History is littered with airlines that no longer exist and pilot pensions that have been turned over to the PBGC. Anyone who is not setting aside a minimum of 15% of their income 'just in case' their airline ends up on this list is stupid: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_defunct_airlines_of_the_United_States

The baby boomers are the first generation where saving for retirement hasn't been a major part of their financial planning.

I seem to recall that the United guys lost their pensions (or the bulk of them) and, following that, there was some kind of asset "distribution" to the entire pilot group. I also recall that the asset was an "equal" distribution and that the older guys, who had lost their pensions, got nothing extra to help replace them. They came to Washington, in force, with knowledge, smarts and money - highly motivated to recapture some of what they lost....and they had a bitter anger at the "younger" pilots who they felt sold them out. You're United, right Andy? One of the "younger" guys? You might want to look into the mirror and ask yourself, "What's fair, what's right?" Because the way things shook out, you guys created part of the problem that sent senior United pilots to Washington.

I was just short of being recalled when the funds were distributed. Those of us on furlough got nothing ... I got nothing. And the funds weren't distributed equally; there was an arcane distribution formula that greatly benefitted senior pilots. How much did retirees get? Nothing.
There was little 'fair' about the distribution. I am less unhappy about receiving nothing than I am about how the retirees were treated.

This is rich: "Are you one of those losers who has no life outside of work?"

You came on here and posted obvious flamebait. You got the response from me that you desired. Happy?

 

[flyboyike]

The baby boomers are the first generation where saving for retirement hasn't been a major part of their financial planning.

It's worse than that, they're the first generation not to do much of any planning at all.

 

[laker4284]

You came on here and posted obvious flamebait. You got the response from me that you desired. Happy?

Happy? YES! This time you rose above being a sophomoric name-caller, although this paragraph was a tad smarmy.

Feel free to post the message you describe as "flamebait" because I recall no such message. Alert: something factual that you don't like is not "flame bait".

I chatted with a few United guys and they are unanimous in saying your description of the distribution was inaccurate. After losing their pensions, they say the distribution hosed those who lost everything and had no time to make it up. Please post the company/union language you were referring to. Assuming you are right, I'll some words for my peers. If they're bs-ing me it's no better than you doing the same.

For most people, having a contractual pension precludes the need for yet more savings directed toward retirement. Many people would rather allocate the cash elsewhere (college for three kids, for example). However, most guys I know DID save or ensured contracts had DC clauses. Assuming they saw the light 20 years ago and put aside 15% a year (mebbe $30g for some and $20g for others) that doesn't come anywhere near close to REPLACING the pensions they had negotiated (and gave up other contractual possibilities) for. It's trite of older pilots to brush off the needs/hurts of furloughed guys. Sadly, there are few if any contracts that expend significant assets on pilots no longer on the property. It's equally trite of younger pilots to brush off the losses of older pilots WHO HAD NO TIME TO RECOVER when their pensions turned to dust.

In any case, tarring an entire generation (which is made up of individuals) as "racists" or misogynists, or "losers", as you did just a few posts above, is just gutter talk. It guts the credibility from everything you write or have written.

But, please, post that info re distributions. And any flamebaiting I have posted.

Going to take my father-in-law out fishing now. It's part of that life I don't have. ;-) Gotta go.

 

[Dan Roman]

The concept that someone doesn't have a life because they enjoy flying seems a little odd to me. To me, someone who can create a life flying airplanes, enjoying whatever hobbies or sports they enjoy and maintaining a good balance with what' s most important , family, is someone who has a life. Not someone who feels they can't wait to retire and do nothing.
But I think the biggest fallacy is pointing figures at these pilots as somehow uniquely guilty of poor planning. I know plenty that have been more than responsible and some not so much, from all age groups. But the bottom line is, life happens. We all have many ups and downs in the course of a career, no matter how well you think you are doing, you can have circumstances beyond your control sabotage any back up plan you think you have. In the case of the old geezers you guys seem to have serious personal issues with, they can hardly be blamed for counting on their DB plans as a major cog in their retirement planning and blamed for wanting to fill the gap it's demise caused. In addition, putting a finite line on how long a pilot should be productive and having "enough" money and quit so you can upgrade is silly. We all should be planning for a 30 yr life after we retire and the more money you have the more options you will have for yourself and more importantly others in your life. We all work to make as much money as we can, that's not "greedy".

 

[Dan Roman]

Andy, you may think you are going to quit at 60, but mark my words when you get there, if you have created a good life that balances time with family, leisure time and you still enjoy flying, you'll keep flying.

 

[Wolf King]

Came late to the thread. Just so I don't have to read pages of scathing attacks, is there some truth to the age change?

 

[pilotyip]

Came late to the thread. Just so I don't have to read pages of scathing attacks, is there some truth to the age change?

It is a hoax, as posted about 23,987 posts ago. But it inspires a wide range of exchanges.

 

[Wolf King]

Thank you.