Age 65 Stinks

[The Prussian]

******

 

[Flopgut]

Avbug: There may not have been a picket line, but if you were/are in favor of 65, then you very much campaigned for someone else's job! How do we know this? The rule was written to allow those over 60 to come back if they wanted to, but they had to be square with giving up seniority. That being the case, the number of pilots who could have returned that did so is so close to zero it is beyond any argument whether or not it was about seniority. Age 65 or a strike? Both are forms of seniority aggression. Period.

A perfect example of this just showed up on this thread. Undaunted Flyer made the claim that if he missed the exact date to keep seniority he would come back without it as a new hire. Well, he missed the cut by no more than a few days. He could have come back and not even gone non-current. He didn't. He didn't want it without the seniority. He was just as dramatic as you post and he couldn't live up to his claims. (I think he's decided to file a lawsuit instead) I got little doubt you're no different.

I don't want what you have. (although I do hope you have plenty) That includes your problems. You can work longer now so get your money together and don't be a burden on us anymore.

 

[The Prussian]

Avbug: There may not have been a picket line, but if you were/are in favor of 65, then you very much campaigned for someone else's job!

Flopgut, give it a rest. You obviously use a different side of your brain than many of us do. How did you get there...how does entitlement creep into anybody's mindset?

I feel that avbug's post was one of the most powerful and well stated posts I've seen on FI.

Kudos, avbug!

 

[avbug]

You can work longer now so get your money together and don't be a burden on us anymore.

I'm a burden on you? You really think so? How, exactly? You assume far too much.

How do you propose to assert that those who stay past 60 are "scabs," yet at the same time complain that those who return after 60 must give up seniority? This is non-sequitur. It makes no sense.

I campaigned for no-one else's job. I have taken no-one else's job. Yes, I'm in favor of pilots being allowed to work until they are 65 years old. I'm in favor of pilots being able to work as long as they are physically able. I have no problem with this, and support the concept, and the legislation, and the regulation, whole heartedly. I did not campaign for it, but I certainly support it.

That being the case, the number of pilots who could have returned that did so is so close to zero it is beyond any argument whether or not it was about seniority.

Then what, exactly, is your problem? You're worried that people aren't moving out of the way fast enough for you? Certainly not that those over 60 returned to take jobs away...as clearly you've just stated that the number who might have done this is "so close to zero...". No, you're not worried about pilots over 60 taking jobs away, at all.

You're worried about pilots over 60 that don't get out of the way in order for you to move up the seniority ladder faster. You're worried about what they've got. You want it. You want others to retire so you can have their job. It's not at all about others having your job. It's all about you wanting what others have, and being upset you can't have it, or have it so quickly. It's greed. Pure, filthy greed. You're the guilty one. You covet. You want what's not yours, and in your guilt, you improperly use the English language to label those who have what you want as "scabs."

Your education, your understanding, and your professionalism lacks in this matter. Again, you must earn what you want. Your sense of entitlement falls short of reason. Your attitude of "get out of the way, old man, I want what you have" has no basis in reality. Nor in the law.

Deal with it.

 

[Flopgut]

Want to know what someone who thinks like me believes is a better way?

www.pilotpensionnow.com

If guys like you would have spent your years at this job supporting/developing something like this there wouldn't be all these problems. But you didn't. Your generation decided being scabs, acting like scabs or otherwise "earning" for yourselves was much more important.

I'm not the "entitlement" type you think I am, but I'm sure my moral imperative is equally distgusting to someone like you. I believe everybody should get a fair deal. It's not enough to hoard for ourseles, we should try to help others.

So why don't you get off your a$$ and be part of a solution?

 

[avbug]

My generation? Exactly which generation is it to which you *think* I belong? You know nothing about me...yet make assumption after assumption.

You're clearly not well versed in the meaning of the word "scab," and to educate you is equally as clearly a waste of time. Enjoy your ignorance, but you should at least be made aware that misusing the term not only undermines your credibility (difficult to do, for you, whereas there's so little to begin with), it also makes you look foolish. You need little help in that department.

If one doesn't support your own pet cause, then one is a scab, now? Working to age 65 makes on a scab, so you say. Failing to campaign for your own pet cause makes one a scab. Perhaps even underlying a bandaid makes one a scab...you are rather liberal with your application of that word.

You can paint the picture any way you like. You're filled with greed. You've asserted that those who work past age 65 get too much...they shouldn't be allowed to work that long. After all...you want it, instead. Same topic, no matter what kind of silk dress you try to hang over it...you say the same thing. Move over old man, I want your job. Over and over again.

Let's be clear. You can't have it.

I may be your age. I may be older. I may be younger. You simply don't know. You make assumptions, resort to name calling, and attempt to make your greed look innocent. It's not. Wait your turn.

Me? I AM a part of the solution. I'll work until I'm 65. And beyond. Why? Because I can.

You can too. Deal with it.

 

[The Prussian]

I believe everybody should get a fair deal. It's not enough to hoard for ourseles, we should try to help others.

So why don't you get off your a$$ and be part of a solution?

So what's so sacrosanct about your lot in life? You've probably got hundreds if not thousands below you on your seniority list, let alone some furloughees. It's a great position that I'm sure somebody else could use to feed and care for their family. So why don't you be the first to step aside and show everybody what genuine altruism is all about.

 

[340drvr]

How 'bout from a non-121 perspective? All those high-seniority guys forced to retire end up wanting to fly for charter or corporate another many years, just part-time "to keep a hand in the game," don't necessarily need benefits or even a full salary, manage to keep the market watered down for everyone else. Or, maybe there ought to be a window of viability for professional pilots, say 35 to 58, that way there's more room for the rest of us! He!!, maybe those over 60 should be forced to report to the Soylent Green processing center on their birthday, after all, it's getting to be a crowded world............(sarcasm off, flame suit on!)

 

[UndauntedFlyer]

A perfect example of this just showed up on this thread. Undaunted Flyer made the claim that if he missed the exact date to keep seniority he would come back without it as a new hire. Well, he missed the cut by no more than a few days. He could have come back and not even gone non-current. He didn't. He didn't want it without the seniority. I got little doubt you're no different.

The above statements are 100% crap. There was no way I could have returned to my airline; that choice was removed by the "get out of my seat crowd" (worse than the real scab crowd) and by ALPA working with the HR department. And besides, so what if I or anyone else displaced from what they had earned over a lifetime of hard work chose to do something else? Whatever that choice it makes no difference in this argument.

The plain fact is that many thousands of pilots were forced to "retire" when they didn’t want to and needed to work as a means of supporting their families. These pilots were fully capable as well as qualified to keep working; and, for what reason were they fired? Not safety, but only for crew movement! Age 60 in the end was proven to be all about the young bullies like FLOPGUT and ANDY who would probably kick their own grandparents into the grave so as to get their house and property. What a great group! But it's the age of entitlement for the young.

Personally, my views are 100% in agreement with AVBUG as he has written in this thread. He has expressed the views exactly as it is. Great job AVBUG.

In any event, sorry to disappoint you FLOPGUT but I'm acutally quite happy. I now fly as a contract Falcon pilot from time to time, have an executive job on an airport board, give some checkrides and some dual from time to time and mostly have every day off if I so choose. I’m also having a blast teaching my 18-year old to fly. And yes, while he'll soon have his CFI, he's primarily interested in becoming an engineer, not a pilot. So the point is: If you're laughing at me or feeling good because I missed the cut, it is really I who has the last laugh as I read of the problems now confronting the "get out of my seat crowd." ENJOY your commute along with the 12-pilot crash-pads, the cutbacks, the enhanced FAA surveillance and the TSA hassles because, unfortunately, it's only going to get worse. Someday this time may even be called the “good old days.”

My advice for a long career and a healthy life, get over the retirement age issue, move on and locate yourself to where you work, take care of your wife and your family, deal with your career situation and enjoy life as best as you can. Finally, if you really don't like flying and were just in this for the money, change careers because the future of the job is school teacher wages. Your life will need to be sustained by a love of aviation, just as a teacher is sustained by a love of helping others.

FLY SAFE AND ENJOY LIFE!

 

[The Prussian]

How 'bout from a non-121 perspective? All those high-seniority guys forced to retire end up wanting to fly for charter or corporate another many years, just part-time "to keep a hand in the game," don't necessarily need benefits or even a full salary, manage to keep the market watered down for everyone else. Or, maybe there ought to be a window of viability for professional pilots, say 35 to 58, that way there's more room for the rest of us! He!!, maybe those over 60 should be forced to report to the Soylent Green processing center on their birthday, after all, it's getting to be a crowded world............(sarcasm off, flame suit on!)

True enough...RJ's have descended upon this planet as a plague of locusts...in the supply/demand world of pilot jobs, we're in for some tough times. :erm: