Age 65 Stinks

[Fubijaakr]

I was coming after you, floppy, but avbug beat me to it. Suffice it to say, you have the stink of the "entitlement" generation emanating from every post you write.

No one owes you a job. Its a seniority based system and the mandatory retirement age is 65 by law.

Let it go already. Age 60 isn't coming back. Ever.

 

[Hamburger]

Ahh Baby Boomers. Making sure they their children have less opportunity than themselves. They got theirs, but that's not enough, they've got to get ours too. Topping off by calling their children 'entitled' for wanting NOTHING MORE than the EXACT same opportunity that they enjoyed displays a such an amazing lack of character.

You want me to get over it? How about you get over me calling you out on your greed? Quit trying to justify your shameful actions. We can't start a family or buy a house so that you can pay for your toys and mistakes and your dignity isn't coming back. Ever. Just accept it. Let it go already.

 

[avbug]

You choose to assume too, then? You understand the implications?

You can only guess that those of us to whom you direct your pitiful venom are indeed "baby boomers." Perhaps some of us are retired. Perhaps some of us are much younger than you. Neverr the less, the only way in which you apparently can conceive of another taking a view you despise is to assume that we are the old man you want out of the way.

Your tune is no different. "Get out of the way, old man. I want your job."

You can't have it, either. Your credibility is in the toilet for making assumptions about age, or station.

More to the point, of course...you're wrong.

 

[Hamburger]

At least they've got something to gain.

If you advocate throwing venom at your peers for wanting, once again, NOTHING MORE than the EXACT same opportunity that those before us enjoyed, then you are just a Chump. They're taking your career and you're thanking them for it.

 

[Rekks Inbound]

Age discrimination sucks even worse.

And someone who assumes that they have the 'right' to exercise the 'priviledge' afforded to them by a pilot certificate really doesn't understand the difference between a 'right' and a 'priviledge'.

Rekks

 

[avbug]

If you advocate throwing venom at your peers for wanting, once again, NOTHING MORE than the EXACT same opportunity that those before us enjoyed, then you are just a Chump.

Those who are enjoying the benefits of no forced retirement until age 65 had no opportunity given them by others surrendering their jobs. They waited their turns, a full career, to presently reach age 60...and now will be entitled to complete their careers at age 65.

You have that same opportunity. Let's be honest. You're greedy. Others have had, and continue to have their opportunity, and you'll receive nothing less. You simply want what's not yours, and that, mate, is nothing more than avarice and greed.

It's not your turn yet. You'll just have to wait.

 

[WayBack]

I think age 65 is just like scope, the more we thumb our chests, saying "no more!", the next thing you know, you're flying with a grandpa old enough to be your FA.

Now that's funny stuff right there!

Have any of you flown with a guy who has been an airline pilot since his early 20's and now reaching his 60's?
These guys are so beat down, they look like they're 80 years old. Half of them have to share the wheelchair lift to board the airplane....just like the flight attendants.
We've seen father and son occupy the same cockpit in the airline industry. Just wait till you see grandpa and grandson....while grandma is doing her service in back.

"welcome to grandma and grandpa airlines....where the oatmeal is free, but the diapers will cost you!"

 

[AA767AV8TOR]

The rationalization of the pro Age 65’ers is understandable. They are perhaps the most selfish generation of pilots since the inception of this once proud profession. The essential “me” and “let them eat cake” generation. Pilots screwing other pilots. A gross abrogation of seniority.

It’s easy for them to say to simply say “move on.” For us trapped on the streets or stagnated in the lower paying jobs for years at a time, we are reminded every day of their backdoor ramroding of this ill advised legislation through Congress.

Age 65 is arguably the worst move by our unions since the B-Scale. The only people Age 65 truly benefits are those at the very top that get to keep their high paying seats an additional five years. They get their cake and they get to eat it too. With the economy in deep recession and the airlines shrinking, those of us left behind are forced to endure more time on the streets or are forced to remain for years on end in the lesser paying jobs.

We are now seeing the true ramifications of Age 65 and it’s a dangerous and ominous trend. Long commutes and having to hold second jobs to pay off aviation debts to put food on the table are now common practice industry wide and for longer periods. Pretty much no one wants the job anymore due to the astronomically low pay, hiring, and promotional opportunities. This is in addition to the five years additional exposure to high altitude radiation and stress to our bodies that nobody seems to want to address.

Why pay $120,000 in education fees or spend 10 years in the military for a $25,000 a year job where it now takes decades to make any decent money? Where are the economics in the entire aviation equation? Ask yourself why airlines are now having to drop their hiring standards to the bare minimums or are having to call back 10 furloughees just to land one candidate that actually still wants to come back and take the job. Why are pilots still employed after multiple failings of checkrides?

Yes, you pro 65’ers. This is your proud legacy. The blood is on your hands. And they kept saying Age 65 wasn’t a safety issue. Yeah right!

AA767AV8TOR

 

[saabservant]

Your points are all valid regarding the sorry state of the pilot profession, but have absolutely NOTHING to do with the age 65 rule. Retirement at a specified age was, is and will be an issue about SAFETY as perceived by the FAA, and about AGE DISCRIMINATION, as perceived by Congress. Going back to the 50's, when the age 60 rule was established, it has NEVER been about career progression.
You (and me, a United furloughee) are victims of bad management that wants to outsource all domestic flying, short-sighted Negotiating Committees and MEC's that allow outsourcing, and the recession.

Low pay, bad work/rest rules, and career stagnation are products of:
Airline outsourcing, facilitated by ALPA MEC's trying to save other segments of their contracts (pay, pensions, etc), and the recession.
Regional MEC's can't be expected to demand equal pay/conditions to the Majors; that is their sole purpose, to provide cheaper labor. Management would simply eliminate or replace them. Since this is the only way to get a start in the airline career, younger pilots have no choice but to go along with what has been set up by their managements and the union.

There are about about 140+ 70 seat rj's at United now, and more than that at Delta.
Not to mention all the 50-seat rj's, and turboprops flying passengers within the major/legacy systems. A massive c-scale and permanent downgrade of the profession, just to protect a relative few senior people at the majors......disgraceful.
ALPA has allowed a second-class career to be established in the US.
Management tried the B-scale tactic in the 80's, which failed, but this has worked even better than that.!

Direct your anger at the proper target: ALPA representation (Bruce York's outfit), the ALPA executive council, which won't address the outsourcing problem, the ALPA national chair(Woerth, Prater), who signs off on ALL contracts, and the MEC's at the legacies that have allowed all the outsourcing. Management is just doing what it can to cut costs and line it's own pockets, as usual...

AMFA was killed off by management recently, in part because of AMFA's going along with 38% outsourcing of their work. Could a similar fate happen to ALPA carriers?

 

[Fubijaakr]

Age 65 is arguably the worst move by our unions since the B-Scale.

This illustrates your fundamentally flawed thinking. Age 65 was a legislative response to allow the U.S. to remain a member of ICAO. Nothing more, nothing less. The "unions" had nothing to do with it.

Oh, and BTW, the pilots responsible for the worst U.S. aviation accident in the last 7 years were 47 and 24 respectively. Perhaps if there had been an experienced Captain on the flight deck 50 folks would have made it to BUF.