Age 60 Back Again!!!!

[FutureTEDpilot]

Spooky,

A lot of people are tired of attitudes like yours. How do Ted's remarks dump on those who walked before him anymore than your remarks dump on those who walked before you? You benefited tremendously your entire career from pilots who retired at 60. You don't actually think that all those pilots you flew with for all those years who stepped out of the picture so you could move up actually think it would be great if ole Spooky could get a second helping of senior airline captain? You know the faces, many of the names, you remember when they left...I know these folks too. Let me channel a bit of their exact sentiments: "Spooky, have a nice hot cup of shut the fcuk up"!

They quit a 60, you quit at 60...I quit at 60.

WELL SAID SIR!

 

[Spooky 1]

WELL SAID SIR!

Flopgut........your pitiful, sir. Go back and crawl in your hole.........please.

 

[Peardc10]

Age 60

CHOICE!

Everyone here has an opionion one way or another on age 60 rule. 15 years ago I was against this change, however, TIMES HAVE CHANGED!!!

I work for a 121 carrier that does not have a defined benefit plan, and in a few years no one will.....We have a basic 401K plan and I have participated to the fullest. I have contributed the max amount every year and see a bleak future for my retirement. Not everyone here has squandered their money on women, toys, and other items. Some of us have had jobs that went away, or fourlough unexpectedly. 9-11 occurred, which sent the stock market downward and saw my 401k lose around 30%, my 401K is back to where it was pre 9-11. Who knows whats going to happen to this crazy industry.

Extending the age 60 rule will benefit everyone here! Those in their 20-30's, might wait awhile longer before upgrading, but in the long run, financially you will be better off. See the big picture................

My 2 cents worth.

Who would of thought that 4 out of the 7 legacy carriers would be in Bankrupt. 5 years ago, If you told me this, I would have said your smok'n crack. TIMES HAVE CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Neubyfly]

Whether you are for keeping the age at 60 or against it, this is NOT the time to change it! Once all the furloughed pilots are recalled, then it can be reconsidered. Either way, I say keep it at 60.

 

[Flopgut]

CHOICE!

Everyone here has an opionion one way or another on age 60 rule. 15 years ago I was against this change, however, TIMES HAVE CHANGED!!!

Extending the age 60 rule will benefit everyone here! Those in their 20-30's, might wait awhile longer before upgrading, but in the long run, financially you will be better off. See the big picture................

My 2 cents worth.

Who would of thought that 4 out of the 7 legacy carriers would be in Bankrupt. 5 years ago, If you told me this, I would have said your smok'n crack. TIMES HAVE CHANGED!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please explain how five more years of being furloughed is going to be a good thing for those pilots who are?

How about when you turn 60 you get surplused to the bottom of the seniority list? Are you still able to see a silver lining for all in that scenario? You must agree that this follows your train of thought. Lets not make 20 year FOs, 25 year FOs, just so you can be a captain longer. You can go to the right seat at 60 for your last several years (behind the furloughs) is that equitable in your minds eye?

 

[freeflyer14]

Extending the age 60 rule will benefit everyone here! Those in their 20-30's, might wait awhile longer before upgrading, but in the long run, financially you will be better off. See the big picture................

please explain - in the long run, financially you will be better off? I am not trying to be a smartass or anything, just trying to be informed. I just don't see how anyone (other than the people getting set to retire, certainly not the 20-30 yr olds) would be financially better off by allowing more stagnation and continued furloughees in the seniority lists.

 

[Flopgut]

Flopgut........your pitiful, sir. Go back and crawl in your hole.........please.

I'm pitiful? I'm not on here as a former DAL type (highest paid pilot group during the highest paying time in history) browbeating a pilot on furlough! I'm just trying to draw a little of your fire to keep you from looking even more ridiculous. I am very fortunate to have a lot of friends from early days of this business. And because I don't like to hear about who just died or bodily ailments I like to get them talikng about thier work. Age 60 was good enough for them, its good enough for you. You made WAY more money than they did and they worked harder. Specifically, your generation is the least deservant of the windfall of fortune it would be to be granted another 5 years as airline captains. Do you think they just wanted to hand the whole thing over to you? No. Did they b1tch about it as much as you are? NO. If you want me to tap my geezer buddies for any other opinion with regard to your thoughts feel free to ask.

I happen to also know this: They are all still p1ssed about your pilot group selling out the union on third man in the cockpit.

 

[Dan Roman]

Of all the points made here it seems like the weakest is "you knew it was age 60 when you started so it's unfair to change it" . This job has changed so much since I started it's mind boggling. In the last few years most of the airline pilots in the U.S. that had a retirement income and thought they could count on it, have lost it. You're telling me that some USAir/UAL/DAL/etc. pilot that has seen his retirement cut by 2/3's and doesn't even qualify for social security should get out of "your" seat because you want to upgrade quicker?

1) Working an extra couple years means huge savings. Even if you have a DB, inflation will eventually eat up a lot of it if you live to your late 80's or 90's. By working just till 63, you (at $160,000 per) earn an extra $480,000, you get 3 more years of savings if your funding an IRA or 401k and you delay tapping into your retirement saving by 3 years. That's a lot of money that could have a profound effect down the road when your 90.

2) If a 61 or 62 year old pilot is still passing checkrides and physicals, he's safe. Experience prevents more accidents than youthful reaction time. In fact, in an emergency reacting too fast is a much bigger problem than reacting too slow. A cocky young pilot can be a much more dangerous pilot than your average "old" guy who has years of experience. Yes there are unhealthy pilots that stuggle because of their health, but they exist in their 50's just as much as they would at 63.

3) You guys who have many years (and have the benefit of knowing that DB's are not safe no matter how old you are) to save and earn interest for the next 20 or 30 years will have plenty of time to save for retirement. The older guys who had their retirement jerked out from under them with no warning don't. So please don't say we knew what we were getting into when we started.

For the record, I'm a fairly junior Captain who is 51. My company has a DB and it's being funded. That said I don't believe anyone can predict the health of any airline 10/20/30 years from now, hence I'm saving as much as I can in my 401k and elsewhere.

 

[Dan Roman]

BTW, if the past 30 years are any indication, the next 30 will be even more full of surprises. My advice would be rather than looking at the here and now when making decisions, look to the long run. Flying till 63 could make a big diference in your retirement. Just as funding a 401k to the max as young as posssible will. Don't put it off! No matter what your opinion is on the age 60 rule or who you work for, MAX OUT YOUR 401k!!! The sooner the better.

 

[Spooky 1]

I'm pitiful? I'm not on here as a former DAL type (highest paid pilot group during the highest paying time in history) browbeating a pilot on furlough! I'm just trying to draw a little of your fire to keep you from looking even more ridiculous. I am very fortunate to have a lot of friends from early days of this business. And because I don't like to hear about who just died or bodily ailments I like to get them talikng about thier work. Age 60 was good enough for them, its good enough for you. You made WAY more money than they did and they worked harder. Specifically, your generation is the least deservant of the windfall of fortune it would be to be granted another 5 years as airline captains. Do you think they just wanted to hand the whole thing over to you? No. Did they b1tch about it as much as you are? NO. If you want me to tap my geezer buddies for any other opinion with regard to your thoughts feel free to ask.

I happen to also know this: They are all still p1ssed about your pilot group selling out the union on third man in the cockpit.

Okay Flopgut I will tone it down a bit for you and everyone else. For some reason This subject seems to bring out the worst in many of us and I am no exception.

I retired way before I turned 60, so as to do something else that interested me. However, the suggestion that turning 60 somehow eliminates you from being and airline pilot is simply ridiculous in today’s environment. That’s my opinion, nothing more and if don’t agree with it, that’s okay to. But if it is overturned someday, don’t look shocked as it will be done by Congress someday, in the not to distant future. The General invokes the name of the Supreme Court as his evidence that this rule as currently written is safe. Congress makes the rules, the Supreme courts enforces them, (sometimes at least). Given enough time the weight of all the pilots without pensions will cause this to happen, which is interesting as this should not be an economic issue but rather an ability/health issue as that was the original reason this daffy legislation was drafted behind close doors with the then FAA administrator and the head of AA. If anything like this was done today, the perpetrators would be run out of town after being tarred and feathered.


As for my airline (Delta) committing all of those sins that you speak of, well I was not even working there when most of that happened. The suggestion that somehow people like me are responsible for the 3rd man being removed from the B737/DC9 is ludicrous at best. FYI, I have flown the B737 with the 3rd man, have you? A total waste of human resources that good ole ALPA tried to cram down the throats of any number of airlines. Maybe you recall when ALPA demanded 3 pilots on all jets, a precursor to the 3rd pilot on the B737. What did you have the? Three pilots, plus a flight engineer, for a total of four pilots in the cockpit! In some cases five, if your flight also included a navigator. This period of ALPA activism is a sorry footnote in the history of what was once a fine organization. Ask the poor unfortunate pilots at Wein. They (ALPA) destroyed this once proud company over this ridiculous B737 featherbedding issue. Don’t get me started regarding this as I was there, and was at the ALPA national convention and foolishly supported this facade in a lock step fashion along with others. Something that I am certainly not proud of today.

I suggest that you support the “choice” to fly past age 60 and up to and including, say 63 or 65. Those pilots who will be retiring over the next 25 years may well need every dime they can muster. SS is pretty much broken and with administration like the one we have today, anything is possible. For those pilots who have just lost everything in their defined and undefined pensions, I think that is the least one could do.