Age 60 Back Again!!!!

[Jim Smyth]

There should be no age limit! Just look at our fine examples in congress. They dont control 100-300 peoples lives at a time, they control millions.

Lets face it, some guys would do fine going to 70 and some need to retire at 40. Make it more stricter health wise the older you get so that the guys that take care of them selves have a choice. Plus we need to stick together and if we are forced out at 60 we need to be eligible for Social Security and Medicare immediately!

 

[G4G5]

Sooner or later it's going to 65. What's it at 50+ countries, Japan, Austrailia, and most of Europe are all over 60.

Interesting read,
http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=4482

http://commerce.senate.gov/hearings/testimony.cfm?id=1581&wit_id=4480

 

[Flopgut]

Hmmm....

It is not a health issue, it is a safety issue. It has been dealt with for all practical purposes. If you are in the twilight of your career and broke, I'm sorry. I know all about it and I don't care to discuss it.

Is there anyway to simulpost this on the fractional side? There are age 60+ pilots over there. I hear some are good, some not so good. I have a friend that is near the policy level at a fractional and he characterizes it like this: They interview a lot of age 60+ types and they hire the best ones they can. Among those, the same traits are revealed. They have incredible experience and knowledge; However, most of them struggle with concentration and have lost "touch" with the controls. It results in the airplane not being where it should, often. Beyond that, he says once these pilots get to 62-64 or so, performance plummets! One in a thousand can cut the gig at 65. So among the age 60+ types who want/need to work the fractionals are hiring the best ones available. Sounds like that would be a pretty good control group to survey about the issue.

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

This is hilarious. Sorta like standing back and squirting more charcoal lighter fluid on the fire. Yes General it will change, and yes Ted I want'a sue you for asking stupid questions in the interview process. Your both fuke'd and you don't even know it yet. Just like the DAL pilots, wishing and praying this is just a bad dream. General, you need to get a job sellings BMW's down in Buckhead. Ted, you need to get a life a job worth your incredible imagination about your self worth.

When both of you grow up to be adults, you will se the big picture. The good newws is neither of you are in it.

No flaming here!

Yeah you funny guy....NOT!

Get a life, when you turn 60 go find something else to do, of I forgot you don't have a life....Well maybe you can find one soon?

BTW...which company do you work for?

 

[Spooky 1]

Yeah you funny guy....NOT!

Get a life, when you turn 60 go find something else to do, of I forgot you don't have a life....Well maybe you can find one soon?

BTW...which company do you work for?

Hey Ted,

I was smart enough to leave DAL five years ago. Make more money, have more fun, fly Boeings than you will ever have in your life. BTW, are you bi-sexual, or do you just sound like a girl? Your pitiful!

God I love strok'in dumb fuks like you! Age 60 is a no brainer, if you have any brains? Of course if it is just I, I, I, me, me, me, then it gets complicated!

 

[FNG_that's me]

Age 60 won't change until the airlines want it to change. Right now they love replacing the crusty captains from the golden era with wannabees from the commuters with little or no expectations of a good paying career.

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

Hey Ted,

I was smart enough to leave DAL five years ago. Make more money, have more fun, fly Boeings than you will ever have in your life. BTW, are you bi-sexual, or do you just sound like a girl? Your pitiful!

God I love strok'in dumb fuks like you! Age 60 is a no brainer, if you have any brains? Of course if it is just I, I, I, me, me, me, then it gets complicated!

Dude, what got your panties in a wad? If you were so smart to bail from DAL five years ago then why are you on this board talking how you worked for Pan-Am, Western, Delta, flying twin Otters yadda yadda, yadda. Gotta get that ego stroked eh? I guess the Delta boys got to you since you weren't "real" Delta.

I bet if we met face to face your language would be different. Real class act from a "retired Delta pilot"

 

[Groucho]

Re: Age 60

Sorry there young fellers, but this one will change. The deciding issue isn't the last ALPA poll, it's something y'all may not know about called the PBGC.

The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. pays a maximum of 28.8K at age 60 for those plans that have been terminated. I have heard much from Delta, and United folks on their plans and how they are going to try to keep them. Don't bet on it, those pension plans will be dumped in the PBGC. Even if a pilot plan is well funded, other employee plans may not be and dumping one at the expense of the others will result in lawsuits etc.

The United and Delta pension plans will be turned over to the PBGC and then you will see the majority of ALPA pilots supporting increasing the retirement age, not because they want to work but because they have too.

It ain't pretty but it is what's happening in the industry. No carrier can afford a defined pension plan when SWA, Jet Blue, and other LCC's don't have one. United cannot get out of bankruptcy until the pension issue is cleared up and I will bet Delta will be the same way. If one dumps a plan the other will have too.

My $.02, let the flames begin.

 

[Spooky 1]

Dude, what got your panties in a wad? If you were so smart to bail from DAL five years ago then why are you on this board talking how you worked for Pan-Am, Western, Delta, flying twin Otters yadda yadda, yadda. Gotta get that ego stroked eh? I guess the Delta boys got to you since you weren't "real" Delta.

I bet if we met face to face your language would be different. Real class act from a "retired Delta pilot"

No Ted, Just tired of listening to low life jerks like you. Again, all I hear from your ilk is me, me, me, then a few I, I's. Know where your coming from and just don't agree with you. I think your type, who by the way, probably has done nothing significant in you paltry life are the problem. I should sit back for a moment, and realize that you, like me are only one voice in the airline wilderness, but your eagerness to dump on guys who have walked before you has me troubled. Age 60 will finally go by the way side. Your constant insults to those of us over 60, has me pissed and if you want to meet me and discuss this issue over a beer, or two please PM me. I suspect that that is not your only agenda, but one can hope that there is some light in the tunnel be sides the train.

Come on Ted, we are all getting older by the day. Recognize the world in which you live. Or maybe that's just yada yad yada, to you?

BTW, I know a number of furloghed UAL pilots who have taken good flying jobs while furloughed. Why can't you get off the UAL teat? My career at DAL was beyond my wildest dreams at any of my previous employers, so I have great feelings about that part of my career. Go figure.

PS Only complete ashol*s use the term dude. I can see why you are such a, well how can I say it..............jerk!

 

[Flopgut]

Sorry there young fellers, but this one will change. The deciding issue isn't the last ALPA poll, it's something y'all may not know about called the PBGC.

The Pension Benefit Guarantee Corp. pays a maximum of 28.8K at age 60 for those plans that have been terminated. I have heard much from Delta, and United folks on their plans and how they are going to try to keep them. Don't bet on it, those pension plans will be dumped in the PBGC. Even if a pilot plan is well funded, other employee plans may not be and dumping one at the expense of the others will result in lawsuits etc.

The United and Delta pension plans will be turned over to the PBGC and then you will see the majority of ALPA pilots supporting increasing the retirement age, not because they want to work but because they have too.

It ain't pretty but it is what's happening in the industry. No carrier can afford a defined pension plan when SWA, Jet Blue, and other LCC's don't have one. United cannot get out of bankruptcy until the pension issue is cleared up and I will bet Delta will be the same way. If one dumps a plan the other will have too.

My $.02, let the flames begin.

So does the PBGC want to take those pension benefits from pilots at age 60 and pay 28k, or let pilots retire at age 65 and pay them 45k? Cause the PBGC is going to be taking on a bunch of retirement benefits, not just the airlines. Would they not rather have the pilots retire early and get off paying less to them?

 

[General Lee]

It won't happen. Just ask the Supreme Court. You can't really argue with them, can you? Oh, maybe you can.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Flopgut]

No Ted, Just tired of listening to low life jerks like you. Again, all I hear from your ilk is me, me, me, then a few I, I's. Know where your coming from and just don't agree with you. I think your type, who by the way, probably has done nothing significant in you paltry life are the problem. I should sit back for a moment, and realize that you, like me are only one voice in the airline wilderness, but your eagerness to dump on guys who have walked before you has me troubled. Age 60 will finally go by the way side. Your constant insults to those of us over 60, has me pissed and if you want to meet me and discuss this issue over a beer, or two please PM me. I suspect that that is not your only agenda, but one can hope that there is some light in the tunnel be sides the train.

Come on Ted, we are all getting older by the day. Recognize the world in which you live. Or maybe that's just yada yad yada, to you?

BTW, I know a number of furloghed UAL pilots who have taken good flying jobs while furloughed. Why can't you get off the UAL teat? My career at DAL was beyond my wildest dreams at any of my previous employers, so I have great feelings about that part of my career. Go figure.

PS Only complete ashol*s use the term dude. I can see why you are such a, well how can I say it..............jerk!

Spooky,

A lot of people are tired of attitudes like yours. How do Ted's remarks dump on those who walked before him anymore than your remarks dump on those who walked before you? You benefited tremendously your entire career from pilots who retired at 60. You don't actually think that all those pilots you flew with for all those years who stepped out of the picture so you could move up actually think it would be great if ole Spooky could get a second helping of senior airline captain? You know the faces, many of the names, you remember when they left...I know these folks too. Let me channel a bit of their exact sentiments: "Spooky, have a nice hot cup of shut the fcuk up"!

They quit a 60, you quit at 60...I quit at 60.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

For those of you interested, Jetblue has gone to DC and is supporting the repeal of Age 60. Let's face it, I don't want to be pulled out of a burning building by a 60+ YO fireman, but if he passes his physical and can carry a 180# dummy all of these years in recurrent and in real life experiences, maybe he might be the best guy to save me that day. Therefore, I'm for a flight deck full of experience-- note Al Haynes did quite well a few months before he retired... Age 61, 62, or 65 are fine with me, as long as more strict physicals are adhered to... I'm hoping to retire at 55 or 60, but if they invent the magic pill in 15 years that allows us to live to 150, I guess working to 65, as long as it's still fun, wouldn't be a bad choice to have...

 

[Flopgut]

For those of you interested, Jetblue has gone to DC and is supporting the repeal of Age 60. Let's face it, I don't want to be pulled out of a burning building by a 60+ YO fireman, but if he passes his physical and can carry a 180# dummy all of these years in recurrent and in real life experiences, maybe he might be the best guy to save me that day. Therefore, I'm for a flight deck full of experience-- note Al Haynes did quite well a few months before he retired... Age 61, 62, or 65 are fine with me, as long as more strict physicals are adhered to... I'm hoping to retire at 55 or 60, but if they invent the magic pill in 15 years that allows us to live to 150, I guess working to 65, as long as it's still fun, wouldn't be a bad choice to have...

Al Haynes did do a nice job. He was not at the controls however (thats the brief I got). JetBlue has also gone to DC and is supporting 12 flight hour duty days. So I guess JetBlue wants merge pilot retirement age with average pilot mortality age. Thanks JetBlue.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Al Haynes did do a nice job. He was not at the controls however (thats the brief I got). JetBlue has also gone to DC and is supporting 12 flight hour duty days. So I guess JetBlue wants merge pilot retirement age with average pilot mortality age. Thanks JetBlue.

No, the aircraft was as uncontrollable as "not in control" can be. However, his strong leadership presence and ability to lead the crew to a near successful outcome was "in control"... Let's face it, the day you show up to fly you could be flying with a needle-head or an Al Haynes... The good thing is that there are at least two heads in the game when the poop hits the fan...

The new planes out here are not that hard to fly, in fact, with their technology, they're quite easy to handle. I find that most 59+ YO pilots out there have had a challenge getting "into" the computer age for the ones who've had a problem, but for the most part, the ones I have flown with have been a pleasure to fly with. I believe you'll see that the future 60+ YO pilots will be much healthier, safer, and in the know about the newest technology out there. This combination should continue to contribute to the best safety record in the world.

 

[Dizel8]

Plus we need to stick together and if we are forced out at 60 we need to be eligible for Social Security and Medicare immediately!

Now THAT I agree with!

 

[Dizel8]

For those of you interested, Jetblue has gone to DC and is supporting the repeal of Age 60.

That statement is kind of like the Hertz commercial: Not exactly!

An officer of jetblue has gone to the DC and said that jetblue supports repealing age 60, however, said person never did ask the pilot group what their thoughts were on the issue. So yes, that officer supports a repeal, perhaps the company does, the pilot group, who knows?

 

[Flopgut]

No, the aircraft was as uncontrollable as "not in control" can be. However, his strong leadership presence and ability to lead the crew to a near successful outcome was "in control"... Let's face it, the day you show up to fly you could be flying with a needle-head or an Al Haynes... The good thing is that there are at least two heads in the game when the poop hits the fan...

The new planes out here are not that hard to fly, in fact, with their technology, they're quite easy to handle. I find that most 59+ YO pilots out there have had a challenge getting "into" the computer age for the ones who've had a problem, but for the most part, the ones I have flown with have been a pleasure to fly with. I believe you'll see that the future 60+ YO pilots will be much healthier, safer, and in the know about the newest technology out there. This combination should continue to contribute to the best safety record in the world.

I agree with you on Al Haynes, he was in "control". The rest of that was pretty much white noise. This issue from JetBlue's perspective is pretty simple. For the rest of the industry it is quite complex. There are retirement plans, huge differences in pay and QOL with multiple fleets/routes, furloughs, etc. You name it. The part about new airplanes not being hard to fly is a little creepy to me. Quito, Ecuador and Teguciagalpa, Honduras aren't that easy no matter what airplane your in. That is why I'm a little skeptical about airlines like JetBlue asserting themselves in matters of policy. You may want to do transcon turns with two pilots, That means I'll have to go to Bogota with only two. Different deal.
****Additionally, I should point out that it was a very nice job Jetblue did in LA and a very good reflection on the profession as a whole. What was the median pilot age in that airplane? Was the landing handflown?***

Here is what we need to do. Lets get some guys/gals from over on the fractional side to chime in on age 60. They fly with these pilots, lets hear what they have to say. I have listened to many and it is not entirely flattering for over 60 types. And these are the best age 60+ pilots out there (that want/need to work). It is a real test of professionalism and overall ability for a retired pilot to start over at a fractional. The nature of the flying/schedule is demanding and the equipment is exceptional. This would be an opportunity to get some pretty good feedback on this issue.

 

[ivauir]

.... but if he passes his physical and can carry a 180# dummy all of these years in recurrent and in real life experiences, ....

First off, I only weigh 160, secondly who are you calling dummy?

 

[FutureTEDpilot]

No Ted, Just tired of listening to low life jerks like you. Again, all I hear from your ilk is me, me, me, then a few I, I's. Know where your coming from and just don't agree with you. I think your type, who by the way, probably has done nothing significant in you paltry life are the problem. I should sit back for a moment, and realize that you, like me are only one voice in the airline wilderness, but your eagerness to dump on guys who have walked before you has me troubled. Age 60 will finally go by the way side. Your constant insults to those of us over 60, has me pissed and if you want to meet me and discuss this issue over a beer, or two please PM me. I suspect that that is not your only agenda, but one can hope that there is some light in the tunnel be sides the train.

Come on Ted, we are all getting older by the day. Recognize the world in which you live. Or maybe that's just yada yad yada, to you?


BTW, I know a number of furloghed UAL pilots who have taken good flying jobs while furloughed. Why can't you get off the UAL teat? My career at DAL was beyond my wildest dreams at any of my previous employers, so I have great feelings about that part of my career. Go figure.

PS Only complete ashol*s use the term dude. I can see why you are such a, well how can I say it..............jerk!

Get over yourself Spook.