ABX update

[GoABX]

From Astar's press release.<<ASTAR pilots carry roughly 50% of the weight out of the company's aerial hub, Wilmington, OH,>>

How did you guys come up with that??

 

[hvydriver]

Go,

It varies between 40-50%, depending on the day.

 

[abxaviator]

That would not seem to answer the question.

 

[penguin22]

Go,

It varies between 40-50%, depending on the day.

C'mon.... show us your data !

 

[ABXbooger]

Really, well ABX must be hauling almost nothing then on our 110 planes. I would bet our 767's alone carry more freight each day than Astars entire fleet. With 33 767's, many of them flying day and night sort, I think thats a safe bet.

 

[xspud]

I think we're closer to 90 planes flying for DHL, and maybe they're not counting the 6 or so out of RIV, but the point remains valid. We have twice as many airplanes out of ILN every night including almost as many widebodies as Astar's total fleet!

Maybe all is fair in love, war and negotiations?

I'd like to see the DHL USA pilot groups being supportive of each other's efforts to negotiate a fair contract. Seemingly exaggerated statements like "hauling 50% of the freight" makes it harder to think of Astar as allies rather than competitors, though.

Maybe it's not an exaggeration. Anybody got some facts?

 

[Bitter]

Weight is not really comparing apples to apples.

Astar does alot of the day sort which is P2.

10Lbs of P2 is weighs more than 8Lbs of P1.....What puts more in DHL's coffers?

You have to think in terms of P1 volume........Weight is the freight forwarding way of viewing the situation!!

We all bulk out before we weight out with express anyhow.

Not saying that Astar does not carry a decent amount of P1 and P2, I just do not buy that with one third of the fleet of Abx they do half the work........

Just seems another way to slam Abx. It was our fault the hub imploded etc.

You sue for our jobs, you try to bargin to change your ACMI to include all the work thus our jobs......then you have the gaul to ask for our support.......all the while thumbing you nose at us, and actively seeking to put us all on the street!!

We are in this together, but we probably will both come out worse off, while you continue to try to eliminate us!!

 

[goastar]

:laugh:

Really, well ABX must be hauling almost nothing then on our 110 planes. I would bet our 767's alone carry more freight each day than Astars entire fleet. With 33 767's, many of them flying day and night sort, I think thats a safe bet.

 

[goastar]

:crying: :bawling: :crying: :bawling: :crying: :bawling: :crying: :bawling: :crying: :bawling:

Weight is not really comparing apples to apples.

Astar does alot of the day sort which is P2.

10Lbs of P2 is weighs more than 8Lbs of P1.....What puts more in DHL's coffers?

You have to think in terms of P1 volume........Weight is the freight forwarding way of viewing the situation!!

We all bulk out before we weight out with express anyhow.

Not saying that Astar does not carry a decent amount of P1 and P2, I just do not buy that with one third of the fleet of Abx they do half the work........

Just seems another way to slam Abx. It was our fault the hub imploded etc.

You sue for our jobs, you try to bargin to change your ACMI to include all the work thus our jobs......then you have the gaul to ask for our support.......all the while thumbing you nose at us, and actively seeking to put us all on the street!!

We are in this together, but we probably will both come out worse off, while you continue to try to eliminate us!!

 

[goastar]

I would of used more, but we are limited to 10 images only per post. Sorry.

 

[AV8OR]

First,

I've heard this 50% figure in the past myself, and to be honest would like to know where it comes from as well. Not saying it is or is not true, but always wondered the nexus of it.

That being said, I don't think it is "another way to slam Abx". As far as the hub intergration imploding, I think the lion's share of the pilots lay the blame at the feet of the true culprit...DHL. Our management however, consistently drops it on the ABX doorstep. But someone in yall's management apparently thinks cozy conversations regarding a non-exsistent job action to our DO, yall's competition, are kosher.

As for the suit. Not rehash that again. It's been done over and over. As for your support, as far as I know, all we've really asked is whether or not you'd cross a picket. We won't if yall find yourself there. Bitter, care to state publically whether you'd honor an Astar strike? I'll go first. No way will I fly struck ABX cities. Period. Incedently, Polar's gonna have some scope issues as well. We have communicated it clearly to their MEC, but today, in MIA, guess what, some of their pilots participated in info picketing in front of AStar offices and later in Plantation in front of DHL.

Certainly understand the root of your screen name though.

 

[356emain]

AV8OR, How did the picketing go today?

 

[goastar]

No dumb a$$ we are trying to force some sort of merger, or anything more than we have, while YOU are sitting around with your thumb up your butt, HOPING DHL will deliver you. The bigger we are the stronger we are! You fu$ks can't seem to grasp that and are more content with sitting around crying how the little astar group is hurting your feelings. Bla, bla, bla!! You want to be some little shi##ty acmi? We don't and we won't!!! We should be in this fight together, but you wish to remain separate. Your own MEC is on board with us but is afraid of your membership, because the majority won't get the facts.

I am sure the wages will be great when capital, or some other VLCC shows up on the ramp. You know the capital guys have a great pension, maybe someday you can have one just like it. (No offense to the capital guys and gals, just needed a name.)

Get in the fight, or shut the hell up, either way, we are going to make something happen at astar, whether it be shut it down or make it better.

Take your whiny BS somewhere else.

Weight is not really comparing apples to apples.

Astar does alot of the day sort which is P2.

10Lbs of P2 is weighs more than 8Lbs of P1.....What puts more in DHL's coffers?

You have to think in terms of P1 volume........Weight is the freight forwarding way of viewing the situation!!

We all bulk out before we weight out with express anyhow.

Not saying that Astar does not carry a decent amount of P1 and P2, I just do not buy that with one third of the fleet of Abx they do half the work........

Just seems another way to slam Abx. It was our fault the hub imploded etc.

You sue for our jobs, you try to bargin to change your ACMI to include all the work thus our jobs......then you have the gaul to ask for our support.......all the while thumbing you nose at us, and actively seeking to put us all on the street!!

We are in this together, but we probably will both come out worse off, while you continue to try to eliminate us!!

 

[goastar]

Your eloquent brother, keep up the good work. I can't take anymore of the ABX "poor me, were the victims, syndrome".

FYI, there is a spell checker for posting. (Joke)

First,

I've heard this 50% figure in the past myself, and to be honest would like to know where it comes from as well. Not saying it is or is not true, but always wondered the nexus of it.

That being said, I don't think it is "another way to slam Abx". As far as the hub integration imploding, I think the lion's share of the pilots lay the blame at the feet of the true culprit...DHL. Our management however, consistently drops it on the ABX doorstep. But someone in yall's management apparently thinks cozy conversations regarding a non-existent job action to our DO, yall's competition, are kosher.

As for the suit. Not rehash that again. It's been done over and over. As for your support, as far as I know, all we've really asked is whether or not you'd cross a picket. We won't if yall find yourself there. Bitter, care to state publicly whether you'd honor an Astar strike? I'll go first. No way will I fly struck ABX cities. Period. Incidentally, Polar's gonna have some scope issues as well. We have communicated it clearly to their MEC, but today, in MIA, guess what, some of their pilots participated in info picketing in front of AStar offices and later in Plantation in front of DHL.

Certainly understand the root of your screen name though.

 

[penguin22]

OK, now that goastar has vented his rage, maybe somebody can answer the question....

Just how do you get 40-50% of the weight?

 

[goastar]

Sorry, bitter and the booger rub me the wrong way. I have heard only rumors where it came from, and know not the facts.

OK, now that goastar has vented his rage, maybe somebody can answer the question....

Just how do you get 40-50% of the weight?

 

[penguin22]

Sorry, bitter and the booger rub me the wrong way. I have heard only rumors where it came from, and know not the facts.

You might as well put me on your list too. Because I'm telling you that Astar carrying 40-50% of the weight out of ILN is bullsh!t

 

[xspud]

Bitter, care to state publically whether you'd honor an Astar strike? I'll go first. No way will I fly struck ABX cities. Period.

Okay, I'll weigh in. I'm a Teamster. I don't cross picket lines.

How we would go about honoring an Astar strike is a little over my pay grade (ie: do we fly at all? What's an Astar city, what's an ABX city?), but my vote is we would honor it. Union leaders need to work out how that's done and they would have my full support. Just the opinion of one APA 1224 member.

 

[goastar]

I never said it was a fact, and you have no facts that back up your claim. In the end does it matter? Companies, people, unions exaggerate in the papers all the time. Did it say we haul 50% of the freight with 1/3 of the planes of abx. I believe the 76 holds 122 of them top side? I guess I could see how one could construe that we carry more freight. I don't know if its true or not, I wouldn't have wrote it in the paper, but they don't consult me. Maybe its posturing for management, don't lose any sleep over it.

I will say ditto for me, with AV8OR and xspud. If a strike shows up on your side, I will not fly ABX cities.

End of discussion, for me.

You might as well put me on your list too. Because I'm telling you that Astar carrying 40-50% of the weight out of ILN is bullsh!t

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

You might as well put me on your list too. Because I'm telling you that Astar carrying 40-50% of the weight out of ILN is bullsh!t

What difference does it make if it's 40%, or 30% or 70%? The fact is that DHL has labor issues, which they have passed down to their "subcontractors." The only hope for both the Astar and ABX pilot groups to maintain some semblance of parity with FedEx and UPS is for them to work together. That would be much easier if they were both represented by the same union, but alas...

As for either side trying to take all the flying from the other, both unions have a legal obligation to protect the jobs of their members. I'm fairly certain that ABX had wording in their contract that guaranteed that they would fly any cargo that came about as a result of acquiring another carrier.

As far as flying struck work, neither union may have much protection if push comes to shove in this regard. There is some precedent that says that as a subcontractor, the work you fly doesn't belong to the company with whom you're having the labor disagreement...it belongs to your "customer"...DHL.

I'm sure that there are some real lawyers out there. I'd be interested in knowing what the legalities are of refusing to work for company "A" simply because they do business with company "B," who, coincidently, is having labor problems.

Of course, the real solution to this monkey-fuss isn't going to be found in the law books or in a courtroom. The real work has to be done in Washington, D.C., by tightening up the laws concerning virtual companies, "subcontracted" employees, and labor law in general.