ABX update

[Joe Pilot]

Corporate mergers don't happen as a result of labor union legal proceedings. I think I've heard enough of that absurd rationalization.

Remember UPS?

 

[goastar]

Emotionally pissed, that sounds like a great reason to not make rational decisions.

Things are going to get worse, you know it, I know it. Good luck.

ABX, ASTAR, separate to the end.:beer:

Intellectually we know we have have to unify, but emotionally we are still fu(king pi$$ed. What we remember is what your lawsuit actually said, not what your MEC said it meant 2 years after they didn't win.

Even our union tries to smooth things out on behalf of your union, but what was claimed by ALPA was extremely serious $hit. Had things gone your way, my kids would be eating spam while we were living in a van down by the river.

 

[penguin22]

Remember UPS?

Yes, I do. Now explain how it applies here.

Folks, let’s think of this dilemma with two things in mind-
short term goals and long term goals.

Long term: assuming a corporate merger doesn't happen, we need to think about one union for all DHL pilots. Let’s set aside arguments for which union for now: I think you all know how I feel. I’ll have plenty to say about it when the time comes.

Short term: NO concessionary contracts!

 

[abxaviator]

"You are not purple or brown and you will NEVER see any contract that remotely resembles anything close to theirs. Don't get me wrong."

NEVER? Under our CURRENT contract my hourly rate, days off and time away from base are ALL better than the same years of seniority and type at the others.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

"You are not purple or brown and you will NEVER see any contract that remotely resembles anything close to theirs. Don't get me wrong."

NEVER? Under our CURRENT contract my hourly rate, days off and time away from base are ALL better than the same years of seniority and type at the others.

I'm sure the time off and time away is better (but how many of your days off do you due open flying?), but I don't think you really want to even compare paychecks and retirement (not to mention job security) with the same seniority at Brown.

I will assume that you are a 767 FO/IRO on 10th year pay (lemme know how close I am ). Not figuring in any IRO override for either company here, just basics.

First, the easy one. No 12% B-Fund.

Second, while your hourly rate is $150 an hour compared to $145 at Brown, your guarantee is 16 hours lower than Brown. Hence, the Brown driver is ahead of the game $1,995 per month.

Same scenario at Purple. Not gonna run the numbers. Too lazy. Wild guess would be Purple has you by about 1000-1500 just on guarantee.

But I agree, it is hard to put a price on time off.

 

[abxaviator]

Like the MasterCard commercial says, Time Off... Priceless. Their guarantees are indeed higher, you'll notice I only mentioned hourly rate. I will gladly give up that $1-2k in guarantee for my 20-30 hours of actual flying and 20-25 days at home. Then if I desire to make up that difference, a day or two of extra flying and still home for 20+ (including non-call reserve days). I fly domestic only and have yet to miss any holiday at home with my little boy.

As for pensions, for now we have a better than average one, but in this day and age I am not counting on it being there in 25 years, if it is, that's gravy.

As far as job security, no arguement there, but can't really negotiate that, just look at all the legacies. The original post referred to contracts not being equitable.

I was only responding to the writer saying we would NEVER have anything even close to Brown or Purple. I believe they both used OUR payscales in their negotiations and while there is always room for improvement, I'd say we're certainly in the ballpark.

 

[AV8OR]

Yes, I do. Now explain how it applies here.

Folks, let’s think of this dilemma with two things in mind-
short term goals and long term goals.

Long term: assuming a corporate merger doesn't happen, we need to think about one union for all DHL pilots. Let’s set aside arguments for which union for now: I think you all know how I feel. I’ll have plenty to say about it when the time comes.

Short term: NO concessionary contracts!

penguin22..........What he said.....ditto.

 

[two(2)%]

How tough do you think it would really be to replace 40 or so airplanes? They would have that many planes replaced inside of 2 weeks if not much sooner.

Santa Klaus Zumwinkel said:

"If we can grow at 4 percent to 5 percent compared with market growth of 3 percent to 4 percent that should be enough to break even in 2009.'' The company is sticking to a target of U.S. operations breaking even in three years"

I'm not sure how they expect to attain these lofty goals when they drop entire States (Montana, trucked from DEN starting Jan) from the next-day express lineup. How about CLE? It's trucked as of Jan (until it snows), still next day service though. It's only a matter of time until they pizzoff an entire market and lose thousands of customers again. If they really intend to bring additional carriers into the system (BTW, Astar insiders have hinted of that for 07) they should adjust their break-even target to something like 2012. It was hard enough trying to indoctrinate those Astar guys (kidding). Either they want increased market share or break-even by 09, they can't have both under the current two-party, 1/2 wit system.

 

[Bitter]

Santa Klaus Zumwinkel said:

"If we can grow at 4 percent to 5 percent compared with market growth of 3 percent to 4 percent that should be enough to break even in 2009.'' The company is sticking to a target of U.S. operations breaking even in three years"

I'm not sure how they expect to attain these lofty goals when they drop entire States (Montana, trucked from DEN starting Jan) from the next-day express lineup. How about CLE? It's trucked as of Jan (until it snows), still next day service though. It's only a matter of time until they pizzoff an entire market and lose thousands of customers again. If they really intend to bring additional carriers into the system (BTW, Astar insiders have hinted of that for 07) they should adjust their break-even target to something like 2012. It was hard enough trying to indoctrinate those Astar guys (kidding). Either they want increased market share or break-even by 09, they can't have both under the current two-party, 1/2 wit system.

Cound not agree more.

More carriers at ILN will cause chaos!

More trucking of express freight is guaranteed to lose the customer.

DHL just does not get.

 

[gearjockey]

Witness our new partnership with Ver Di and our contacts on the Deutsche Post Supervisory Board. All the years you guys have had with DHL, why haven’t you reached out to them like that?

Did that work? It seems like every time ABX pilots reach out to DHL, DHL gives ABX pilots a reach-around. Maybe if ABX pilots told DHL to bite their sacks they would be awarded more flying. Seems to work for Astar. Isn't ABX losing Lubbock, HRL, and ABQ sometime early next year?

 

[xspud]

It seems like every time ABX pilots reach out to DHL...

Technically, we're "reaching out" to DPWN/Ver di, ie: the parent company. It's a long-term commitment to a relationship, time will tell if it bears fruit. Right now I don't believe any individual carrier in the DHL system has significant growth opportunities because DHL doesn't grow "organically"; wherever they need more lift they buy or contract with a new carrier as opposed to growing the existing ones. Would the Astar pilots say they are pleased with the "growth" they've seen in the last 3 years? I can't speak for them, but from my side of the fence I haven't seen anything exciting happening over there.

Personally I haven't heard anything about LBB, HRL or ABQ. Maybe they want to truck them, too. It's actually a brilliant strategy, you see. FedEx/UPS will never make any money hauling freight on all those expensive new airplanes! They'll be bankrupt any day now! We've got them right where we want them!

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

mgt

FedEx/UPS will never make any money hauling freight on all those expensive new airplanes! They'll be bankrupt any day now! We've got them right where we want them!

HEY NOW! You take that back! That's OUR mgt. BS line. Go tell your mgt. to come up with their own BS line [mgt:smash: ]

Seriously, can't these fools at least come up with something fresh rather than reaching for that old dusty playbook they've been using for the last 70 years.

 

[Joe Pilot]

Technically, we're "reaching out" to DPWN/Ver di, ie: the parent company. It's a long-term commitment to a relationship, time will tell if it bears fruit. Right now I don't believe any individual carrier in the DHL system has significant growth opportunities because DHL doesn't grow "organically"; wherever they need more lift they buy or contract with a new carrier as opposed to growing the existing ones. Would the Astar pilots say they are pleased with the "growth" they've seen in the last 3 years? I can't speak for them, but from my side of the fence I haven't seen anything exciting happening over there.

Personally I haven't heard anything about LBB, HRL or ABQ. Maybe they want to truck them, too. It's actually a brilliant strategy, you see. FedEx/UPS will never make any money hauling freight on all those expensive new airplanes! They'll be bankrupt any day now! We've got them right where we want them!

How well will that relationship go once DHL starts taking flying away and giving it to other acmi carriers? Or when you start getting the word from management that ABX isn't going to be able to be competitive with lower tier carriers because crew costs are too high? If you haven't heard it yet you will eventually. DHL has proven over and over that they are not loyal and will crush any agreement they made.
I do like the idea of the one union for DHL carriers that someone mentioned.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

Technically, we're "reaching out" to DPWN/Ver di, ie: the parent company. It's a long-term commitment to a relationship, time will tell if it bears fruit.

Dude, step away from the Kool-aid! I repeat, step A-W-A-Y from the Kool-aid!!

If you want to know what DHL thinks of unionized employees (especially Teamsters) Google "DHL,Teamsters," and see what you get.

(If you're a DHL manager and you're reading this, Google "DHL $uck$," leaving out the dollar signs of course, and see how well your "no employees means no employee problems" policy is working in the U.S.)

Hearing that ABK is "reaching out" to Dumwinkle is like that scene in the movie "War of the Worlds"...the original one...where the kindly old country Preacher, remarks that any creature created by the same God as us must have values similar to our own. He approaches the Martians space ship with Bible in hand in a gesture of peace and friendship, when all of a sudden...bzzzzzzzZAP! Dust.

Now you say you want to "reach out" to those ba$tard? Fine!

You go first...

 

[LARRY H. JUNIOR]

trucking cle? now that is a fu)(ing joke.
there is no way a truck can make cle by 7am. min by truck is 4 hours with no snow. add east side snow, its 5-6 hours.
GO BROWN, GO PURPLE, because YELLOW SUCKS

 

[DC-9er]

Dude, step away from the Kool-aid! I repeat, step A-W-A-Y from the Kool-aid!!

If you want to know what DHL thinks of unionized employees (especially Teamsters) Google "DHL,Teamsters," and see what you get.

(If you're a DHL manager and you're reading this, Google "DHL $uck$," leaving out the dollar signs of course, and see how well your "no employees means no employee problems" policy is working in the U.S.)

Hearing that ABK is "reaching out" to Dumwinkle is like that scene in the movie "War of the Worlds"...the original one...where the kindly old country Preacher, remarks that any creature created by the same God as us must have values similar to our own. He approaches the Martians space ship with Bible in hand in a gesture of peace and friendship, when all of a sudden...bzzzzzzzZAP! Dust.

Now you say you want to "reach out" to those ba$tard? Fine!

You go first...

Hey thats Terry Moore's website. Been around forever. Take you guys this long to find it?

 

[xspud]

If you want to know what DHL thinks of unionized employees (especially Teamsters) Google "DHL,Teamsters," and see what you get.

(If you're a DHL manager and you're reading this, Google "DHL $uck$," leaving out the dollar signs of course, and see how well your "no employees means no employee problems" policy is working in the U.S.)

Hearing that ABK is "reaching out" to Dumwinkle...

I was responding to a question about APA 1224's relationship with the union representatives who are DPWN board members. I put "reaching out" in quotes because that was the phrase used in the previous post. I'm a member of APA 1224 but I'm not on the MEC. My MEC has my full support in all of their efforts, including the relationship with Ver di. I'm assuming you understand the corporate structure.

I think I've previously expressed my views on how "well" I think DHL's policy is working, but I'll restate it: I am convinced their policy guarantees that FedEx & UPS will eat them up in the world market. They're going to have to make some drastic changes if they're ever to make a profit in the U.S.

There is no reason to make any concessions, because if they try to run this thing with a bunch of non-union lowest-bidder contractors the whole thing is doomed to fail anyway. Givebacks are not going to save them.

 

[xspud]

Dpwn/apa 1224

Seems like there may be some confusion out there, maybe this will clear some up. The ABX union effort in Germany has been to establish a relationship with the labor leaders who are board members at DPWN (DHL's parent company). The intent is to communicate our U.S. labor issues directly to the labor leaders in Bonn. They have some votes and some influence on the board and their influence might help us all in the future. By law they are given seats on the board to represent labor interests. If the labor leaders in Europe secretly hate the U.S. unions then we've wasted our time. But I still don't see how it hurts us, because we don't negotiate with them.

DISCLAIMER:
I am a college dropout who has only been able to find gainful employment by performing a simple, repetitive task, ie: flying an airplane.

 

[penguin22]

Hey thats Terry Moore's website. Been around forever. Take you guys this long to find it?

Forever is right. The guy loves to brag how he won $104,000 or something in court from Airborne Freight Corp. Funny part is he couldn't touch a dime cause the poor slob was bankrupt... it went straight to his creditors.

 

[penguin22]

You go first...

We already did. Thought we covered that!