ABX furloughs

[Bitter]

This is a little off the subject, but Mark Detroit put out to schedulers that we had agreed to a contract and would be bidding cof by this weekend. I checked the hot lines and this is NOT true. This is disinformation (read lie) and is designed to fracture the group even more. I told one of the schedulers this and s o now they know the rest of the story. Pass the word.

PASSED

 

[otter1]

The OPF system which allows those very few at the top to nearly double their pay hasn't been in the best interests of the majority - instead of real pay raises we're given the opportunity for additional work. The justification for this during the last civil war within the union (which the good guys lost to the detriment of the majority but advantage to the few) was along the lines of "one day you'll be senior so go along with it".

Many went with it, many are still being carried along by it, and many will no longer ever be senior. "One day it will be your turn" is a premise relying upon continued growth, a growth which unfortunately ran out of steam about a decade ago. Age 65 is also really going to hurt - but not everyone.

I agree totally. Personally I am in favor of some type of cap on OPF. At least we should let more of the group get the benefits of OPF instead of a generally small group at the top. Especially since it looks more and more like there are many who will never be senior.

 

[penguin22]

instead of a generally small group at the top.

you're kidding, right?

I just looked at the MAY opf award, and hit 100 pilots before I got out of the names starting with "H". Maybe somebody can count them all. Lets see if it was really a "small group at the top"

 

[ABXbooger]

it really does benefit a minority

 

[GoABX]

MY PROPOSAL:

In any bid period a crewmember may bid open time up to amount no greater than one shuttle or trips totaling 7 pay days. In the event crewmembers are on furlough, crewmembers shall not be awarded open time or COF, unless they are within 5 years of the FAA mandatory retirement and have not yet reached their annual retirement credit cap. Vacation buy back shall be counted against the 7 day monthly maximum.

====================

Everyone can get a 50% premium over their salary. (Isn't that enough?)

It makes OPF available to more people.

It encourages people to actually take their vacation, while still giving junior people who can't get OPF a chance to make some extra money.

It doesn't penalize prospective retirees. However, once they max out, they have to shut it down for the rest of the year.

It removes the need to reduce the OPF cap from 13% in the event of a furlough.

(Morally I don't think people should bid OPF while there is a furlough but the votes of the greedy are needed too.)

 

[Bitter]

MY PROPOSAL:

It removes the need to reduce the OPF cap from 13% in the event of a furlough.

So you think we should furlough until we are at 13% OPF in every seat in the company....real slick! Are we not trying to save jobs, not create more furloughs?

 

[GoABX]

No Bitter,

If the company were to furlough, the 13% would become irrelevant because like our current situation no one could bid or would be awarded OPF. So it would encourage the company to use less than 13% or use build up lines (options they have now). If that is not clear enough for you or the company, just add a sentence that states in the event of furlough, the 13% OPF cap is reduced to 5%.

 

[Bitter]

I get it

 

[BoxesRus]

Let's be sure to keep our focus on the ball. The OPF boycott is a self-help response to management's violation of the status quo with the ANA contract. We're not going to solve the OPF distribution issue here.

I do completely agree that it is immoral for anyone to be bidding open flying with furloughed hostages on the street. But, really, is anyone surprised by the individuals who put their own greed above all else? Do the names surprise you? Are these people your friends?

Our focus should be on unity. We face an adversary who has demonstrated in the past that his "scum sucking scorpion" pilots have no value to him--aside from putting bonus dollars in his pocket.

 

[ABXbooger]

If you haven't already, listen to the hotline

 

[Clipperskip]

can we trust them?

No Bitter,

If the company were to furlough, the 13% would become irrelevant because like our current situation no one could bid or would be awarded OPF. So it would encourage the company to use less than 13% or use build up lines (options they have now). If that is not clear enough for you or the company, just add a sentence that states in the event of furlough, the 13% OPF cap is reduced to 5%.

There has been some great ideas batted around on this forum to solve some of the problems that have faced our pilot group. I like the suggestions to reasonably limit the open flying greed that has been so destructive to the unity of our group. However, I wonder if it is not a waste of time to discuss a future contract with Flight Management when they effectively choose not to follow our present contract due to what they deem to be its economic restrictions They could run ANA within the bounds of our current agreement but they have admitted that they choose not too.

I personally feel that it is pointless to have talks toward a new agreement until it is clear that they will at least follow the one we have now. Follow the present contract with regards to ANA, bring the furloughed guys back then I feel talks could go on with a possibility of success.

 

[Bitter]

There has been some great ideas batted around on this forum to solve some of the problems that have faced our pilot group. I like the suggestions to reasonably limit the open flying greed that has been so destructive to the unity of our group. However, I wonder if it is not a waste of time to discuss a future contract with Flight Management when they effectively choose not to follow our present contract due to what they deem to be its economic restrictions They could run ANA within the bounds of our current agreement but they have admitted that they choose not too.

I personally feel that it is pointless to have talks toward a new agreement until it is clear that they will at least follow the one we have now. Follow the present contract with regards to ANA, bring the furloughed guys back then I feel talks could go on with a possibility of success.

i agree, why negotiate until those terms are met.

 

[gearjockey]

I noticed the minister of propaganda (Herr Volmer) updated his bi-weekly thoughts site. First he quotes Roman emperors now playwrights? I'm just thankful we have someone so introspective and insightful to lead us toward the future. BTW, someone from another site posted some interesting fodder at the bottom of the page (museumdriver).




http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/showthread.php?t=12545

 

[Bitter]

So what is the holding company for?

 

[GoABX]

Hete told Ross it was for tax purposes.

Imagine a regular corporation that is comprised of different departments, divisions, or even separate businesses is like a solid bowling ball. If you wanted to break out one of the businesses to sell, you would have to split a bowling ball. You can do it, but it is hard. (The hard part is stripping out revenue, expenses, earnings, liability, depreciation, goodwill, amortization, taxes, value with/without the rest of contributing components, etc. etc)

But why a holding company to buy or sell?

Now image a clear beach ball (holding company) and inside of it you put softballs, baseballs, golf balls and marbles which are the pieces of the old company. Once you go through the accounting hassle of cleaving everything into its own mini-entity, it becomes much easier to add or remove small balls from the clear beach ball.

An over-simplification . . .absolutely. 100% accurate . . .no. But it does give a good mental picture of why and how a holding company was created.

So does a holding company save on taxes, for the most part, not really. 5 pounds of sand in one bucket is the same as 5 pounds of sand in 5 buckets. However, if you were going to sell one of the 1 pound buckets it would give you more control and allow you to artificially inflate or minimize the items listed above, which might save on taxes for either the buyer or seller. (How the debt, income, tax carry-over, and depreciation is divided can make the same sale price very cheap or very expensive.)

So forming a holding company to save on taxes might be a half truth.

 

[Bitter]

I hope they are going to buy something....not sell the company out from under us.

Last time they cleaned house and furloughed folks, it was to sell out......can these guys change?

 

[xspud]

ABX Holdings

I don't think we have much to sell right now, aside from the airline. The scenario of splitting up the airline and selling a piece of it (as presented on the other forum) seems pretty far-fetched to me. I don't see the advantage or incentive for any of the parties involved. I also don't believe that ABX is poised to start some large operation in Asia this year. ABX Holdings could sell the airline but that would effectively end the company. DHL is going to eventually take over all the sort mgt so that leaves ABX with a couple of USPS contracts. Outside mtx contracts are dependent on having our own aircraft to service.

It doesn't seem the most likely scenario, but it's possible that someone could come up with enough cash to purchase Astar and the ABX airline (with ABX Holdings retaining the sort contracts). I haven't seen any evidence that Astar's owner has any interest in operating an airline, so I don't expect him to make a play for ABX. I think DHL would have to be cooking up a third party (which could, of course, include some current ABX/Astar managers).

It seems more likely to me that the holding company is for acquisitions. That has been a long-stated goal of ABX. That would, of course, allow the creation or purchase of another airline which could operate things like the ANA contract. It would also allow the purchase of Astar without the necessity to merge the airlines.

 

[TWA]

Normally when a company splits up into several corporations it is for liability. Say the company is split up into branches of DHL ACMI, Sort, ABX Charter and ABX Asia. If a DC9 from the DHL ACMI branch plows into a handicapped school in NYC, only the ACMI branch can be sued. It leaves all other branches of the company in tacked and free of legal action, if the corporations are properly setup.

I don't work for ABX and have no idea what their intentions are, but this is what many companies will do during a period of growth. ABX is beginning to diversify their business (slowly), and it would be a good idea for them to make sure one bad act doesn't bring down the whole ship.

 

[BoxesRus]

I hope they are going to buy something....not sell the company out from under us.

Last time they cleaned house and furloughed folks, it was to sell out......can these guys change?

BWAHAhahahahahaaaa! Ahem....sorry.

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

I haven't seen any evidence that Astar's owner has any interest in operating an airline, so I don't expect him to make a play for ABX. I think DHL would have to be cooking up a third party (which could, of course, include some current ABX/Astar managers).

It seems more likely to me that the holding company is for acquisitions. That has been a long-stated goal of ABX. That would, of course, allow the creation or purchase of another airline which could operate things like the ANA contract. It would also allow the purchase of Astar without the necessity to merge the airlines.

Why would anybody in their right mind want to purchase Astar? Certainly not for their fleet - a couple-dozen 727's and a few DC-8's, both types of which are being replaced by their competitors due to concerns over cost and reliability related to aging aircraft. (The Airbuses are leased) And it's unlikely that anybody would want to buy Astar for their management team...a "team" that's populated mostly by NWA washouts and retirees, scabs, and a smattering of guys who couldn't get hired anyplace else during the hiring booms of the 80's and 90's. Their legacy as "managers" has been to turn what was once a highly-motivated, well-compensated work force into one which is paradoxically both highly-compensated but despirited.

And the pilots? Pilots are pilots...unless they're super-annuated with regard to pay, and frustrated with their companies lack of growth and indifference to their CBA. In that case, pilots become liabilities. Anybody wanting to take over Astar's ioperations would probably be better off to bankrupt the company, purchase only the assets (of which the Operating Certificate is one), and hand out new job apps to the departing employees. The same applies to ABX.

You're correct about "The Daz." Like many of his pals (and investors), he's in his 60's and living in Key Biscayne. I'm sure they'd all like to be out there fishing and playing golf, not huddled over a commode watching their $57,000,000 turd go round-and-round the bowl on it's way to the sea.

Buy Astar? I'm not sure you could give it away...