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HeavyjetDC8 said:
We are indeed blessed; not just a message but also bid packs and a letter of agreement have appeared in my in-box. The bid pack shows 98 lines for some 125 crew members in each 767 seat, the surplus I suppose to be covered by build-up lines which will probably be assigned to maximize the consecutive period spent on ANA flying to 24 days. We did reach agreement for maximum consecutive time spent in Asia to be 15 days didn't we? Not much of an agreement otherwise.
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Sorry but that is pretty much entirely wrong. Between the Domestic and ANA lines, there are 95 flying lines plus 23 Capt R-lines and 20 FO R-lines. I don't know what you are referring to by the "surplus" and build-up lines. The period in Japan will not be 24 days, as shown in the bid pack the ANA lines are constructed per the "non-std" parameters with 11 or 12 work days (including travel days, 2out, 1 back).

Keep in mind, this is NOT an agreement for long-term contractual deviation for ANA. This is a temporary, stop-gap agreement until ratification of the new CBA and ANA Agreement.

As for saying it's not much of an agreement, I doubt the guys who just got brought back would agree with you.
 
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Whistlin' Dan said:
As one of my colleagues (one with a graduate degree in International Finance) has just informed me, there's no use continuing this discussion until the difference between "guaranteed revenue" and "guaranteed profit" are understood by all the participants.

One good thing has come out of this discourse - I'm starting to understand why the contract negotiations have been taking so long.
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How will we ever survive without your pearls of sophisticated wisdom.

Let me just say on behalf of all here how much we've appreciated and benefitted from your condescension to our level. I'm sorry we have your comprehension Dan. Maybe if the forum could have supported flanelgraph cutouts or pie charts we'd have gottin it. Reeaaly though....thanks for the effort. Now I know why ALL the busses at ILN are short to go to the ramp......so we'll feel more at home.

You take care now.
 
I received an incomplete bid pack - so yes, my post #239 is, as so kindly and tactfully pointed out, entirely wrong and consequently best ignored. I obviously picked the wrong day to quit smoking dope.
 
RE: ANA lines

Would I be correct to assume that, on the "non-standard" lines with 12 day ANA blocks, the extra days off do not have to be bid back? In other words they are true 19 day-off lines?

If so, that looks pretty good to me. Would be a lot more palatable to the group than the proposed 23 on/23 off 3 month cycles. A lot less productive, obviously. 4+ fewer work days per month by my count.
 
'Tip or the hat' to Dave and his crew for getting this mess cleaned up. Shame on the company for putting the 10 junior guys and their families thru this. What did Joe gain, except even more distrust from the pilot group as a whole?
 
xspud said:
Would I be correct to assume that, on the "non-standard" lines with 12 day ANA blocks, the extra days off do not have to be bid back? In other words they are true 19 day-off lines?

If so, that looks pretty good to me. Would be a lot more palatable to the group than the proposed 23 on/23 off 3 month cycles. A lot less productive, obviously. 4+ fewer work days per month by my count.
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That is correct, with Non-Std lines one does not bid back the days. As to your reference to the 23/23, this does NOT replace that, this is a way to TEMPORARILY staff the ANA operation under the current contract. It is VERY unproductive and doubles the cost of commercial travel. When we get a TA for ratification, we will also be moving forward with a Deviation Agreement for ANA which will, in all probability, include the 23 day blocks.
 
abxaviator said:
As to your reference to the 23/23, this does NOT replace that, this is a way to TEMPORARILY staff the ANA operation under the current contract.
Click to expand...

Yep, I understood that. I also can see how much less productivity is in those lines. Now that we're re-entering contract negotiations, the question of 23/23 becomes an issue again. I know the company & negotiators had basically agreed on 23/23 but there are obviously a number of pilots uncertain whether they can sign off on it. Don't know that we can come up with any reasonable alternatives at this point, but it's time to discuss it again.
 
inplaneview said:
'Tip or the hat' to Dave and his crew for getting this mess cleaned up.
Click to expand...

I'll second that! Welcome back to all the recent furloughees. Thanks to the e-board for their hard work and to the many who supported their efforts.

We still have guys out who want to come back, I hope this ship can get turned around and they have their shot, too.
 
I'm wondering if we're gonna find outselves faced with being coerced into accepting the 23/28 day ANA blocks as a choice between that or Hete putting the furoughees back out on the street. I wouldn't put it past him.
 
THANK YOU E BOARD!!!!!!

I greatly appreciate the efforts that it took to get the guys back. I am sure it was a tough battle.

After reading the letter about the agreement when do the Upgrades begin. Last I looked the 9 Capt'n seat is mighty thin. Are the upgrades going to be based on the "new" lines of ANA flying or is there an actual staffing formula for this. When does the upgrade process begin and how. All of our standards guys are eating sushi.

E board thak you again for getting the guys back from the streets, but are they going to come back. I know I would be questioning my loyalty to a company that thinks so little of me as an employee that even if I did return it would only be as a stop gap until I could get a job where I would be valued. Someplace like wal-mart or home depot.

If someone out of the last group of 10 does not return will they then go to the remaining 5 guy that are still out from years ago?
 
From a guy who was on the street, and my family...THANK YOU! Not only to the E-board, but to all of the membership who stood up and said enough is enough. I hope this shows what a united group with a common cause can do.

I am a proud brother of local 1224.
 
"Back to your books LHJ, you have no time to be screwing around on the message boards;) . "...

back to the books!!! Hell, these guys weren't gone that long. Of course if their memorys' are as bad as mine, they'd better stay in the books every day!
 
June 12, 2007
Dear Colleague:
Today we announced the sale of a 49 percent economic interest and 24.9 percent
voting interest in ASTAR to DHL. Additionally, DHL and ASTAR have agreed to extend
the current ACMI contract to 2019.
The Board will be expanded from three seats to four seats and DHL will appoint one
director to our Board, which it has done, and we welcome Hans Hickler, CEO of DHL
North America, to our Board.
Consistent with U.S. laws, DHL’s investment is a minority one and the control of ASTAR
remains with the current owners. This investment will have no impact on our day-to-day
management. The senior management team will continue in their current roles.
On behalf of the entire management team, thank you for the work you do – in the air,
on the ground and in our offices – to make ASTAR a success.
Sincerely,
John H. Dasburg
Chairman and CEO
 
Was there a ABX crew meeting last night? Any indication what this means to us. Should I have just stayed on furlough?
 
DHL buys 49% of Astar. So what? DHL used to own 100% of what was then known as DHL "Airways" and it wasn't that great a place to work...B-list money, crappy, outdated, and/or obsolete equipment, lethargic management, and much of "our" work subcontracted to ACMI carriers.

The money's better now, but not much else has changed. The equipment is a little better too, but the management is a lot worse. The only good news is that now, a S/O can make 100K/yr. The bad news is that that's as far as he'll get for 6 or 7 years...about the same amount of time it takes to go from "New Hire" to "Captain" (at 2 1/2 times the money) at UPS or FedEX.

The announcement of DHL's purchase raises more questions than it provides answers. Some people are looking at it and saying "Yippee! DHL came to our rescue!" I'm looking at it and wondering "Why did Dasburg and his investors want out?"
 
Whistlin' Dan said:
DHL buys 49% of Astar. So what? DHL used to own 100% of what was then known as DHL "Airways" and it wasn't that great a place to work...B-list money, crappy, outdated, and/or obsolete equipment, lethargic management, and much of "our" work subcontracted to ACMI carriers.

The money's better now, but not much else has changed. The equipment is a little better too, but the management is a lot worse. The only good news is that now, a S/O can make 100K/yr. The bad news is that that's as far as he'll get for 6 or 7 years...about the same amount of time it takes to go from "New Hire" to "Captain" (at 2 1/2 times the money) at UPS or FedEX.

The announcement of DHL's purchase raises more questions than it provides answers. Some people are looking at it and saying "Yippee! DHL came to our rescue!" I'm looking at it and wondering "Why did Dasburg and his investors want out?"
Click to expand...

More pearls of wisdom. Dasburg and his investors are from out. I think your UPS and FedEx rates are a little off also. Your "answers" will come in due time.
 
Whistlin' Dan said:
The announcement of DHL's purchase raises more questions than it provides answers. Some people are looking at it and saying "Yippee! DHL came to our rescue!" I'm looking at it and wondering "Why did Dasburg and his investors want out?"
Click to expand...

Yeah, it does. The real question it raises is why someone apparently so pleased he's no longer here at Astar spends so much time waxing eloquent about how much it suck$ to be us. I've worked for a variety of truly awful places myself, but the difference is I don't sit around on the internet years later trying to make myself feel better about my decision to leave. I moved on. Apparently Whistlin' has not. That's really kinda sad.
 
flyinboxes said:
I think your UPS and FedEx rates are a little off also.
Click to expand...
By golly, I do believe you're right! The latest pay and upgrade info over on that "other" website shows that it's MORE than 7 years to F/O at Astar, more like 8. And it's AVERAGES about 6 1/2 to Captain at FedEx and UPS.

So, a pilot who's spent the last 7 years at Astar will make around 82K this year. A pilot who's spent the last 7 years at UPS will make "only" 191K this year. Clearly, 191 is NOT "2 1/2 times as much" as 82K. It's only about 2 1/3 as much. Thank you for calling that to my attention!

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

(Of course, the UPS pilot probably spent the last 2 or 3 years in the right seat of something, where he made an additional 100-150K more than the Astar pilot. The UPS guy is also flying crew-eating International WB vs. local, narrow-body sit-n-waits, but I don't want to get into all that...)
 
flyinboxes said:
More pearls of wisdom. Dasburg and his investors are from out. I think your UPS and FedEx rates are a little off also. Your "answers" will come in due time.
Click to expand...

you should really:
1. get a life
2. quit posting
or 3. quit with the cryptic grade school "I know a secret, I know a secret" B.S.

Maybe you can just enlighten all of us with the "answers" oh mighty one or go play with your management "team".
 
AV8OR said:
Yeah, it does. The real question it raises is why someone apparently so pleased he's no longer here at Astar spends so much time waxing eloquent about how much it suck$ to be us. I've worked for a variety of truly awful places myself, but the difference is I don't sit around on the internet years later trying to make myself feel better about my decision to leave. I moved on. Apparently Whistlin' has not. That's really kinda sad.
Click to expand...
So where did the Whistlin' Whacko move on to?


erwaz said:
Does anyone like tunafish?
Click to expand...
I'm sure Doomsday Dan is enjoying his crow.
 

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