ABX furloughs

[xspud]

Why can't there be a different approach to open flying? A limit on OPF to save a crewmembers job or to allow a person to upgrade to the 767, in either seat?
OPF has become such a thorn in our side it is ridiculous.

I agree with you, booger. I wish we could rewrite the whole program. The problem is not just on the pilot's side, though. To preserve jobs the amount of flying that is placed in open time would have to be reduced and the company doesn't want that--reduced productivity. As I understand it, open time came into being because the company wanted more productivity and the pilots wanted more money. This was the compromise. And it worked OK for the pilots while the company was growing. Since we've been stagnant and shrinking it hasn't worked well for a lot of us.

Personally, I have never been interested in working extra days. So I can't claim to be especially virtuous when I say that I've never bid open flying. But I did make a conscious decision to never bid open flying as long as anyone was on furlough. I would be happy to support any initiative to reduce open flying and preserve jobs, though I think it would only save jobs in the short term. Only growth will preserve jobs long term.

I see a lot of unity on the line and a lot of concern for the the impact on junior (less than 10 years!) crewmembers. I think the open flying system we've inherited promotes a basic lack of unity, but the system is pretty deeply rooted. I don't know if it's realistic to expect to overhaul it on short notice. If ABX can survive I hope we can address it. In the meantime, I've seen a lot of our group willing to sacrifice and I appreciate that.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

The OPF system which allows those very few at the top to nearly double their pay hasn't been in the best interests of the majority - instead of real pay raises we're given the opportunity for additional work. The justification for this during the last civil war within the union (which the good guys lost to the detriment of the majority but advantage to the few) was along the lines of "one day you'll be senior so go along with it".

Many went with it, many are still being carried along by it, and many will no longer ever be senior. "One day it will be your turn" is a premise relying upon continued growth, a growth which unfortunately ran out of steam about a decade ago. Age 65 is also really going to hurt - but not everyone.

 

[abxaviator]

At CAL, we had a higher quarantee (80 hours), but Reserve lines had just 10 days off. As imperfect as it is, our OPF system does allow one the CHOICE (respective of seniority) to have more days off or to add to one's income. I personally would not support an increase in hours with a mandatory increase in work days. Perhaps the answer lies within a limit to the number of days of OPF one may bid.

Having said that, as others have posted, that would be only a short term (1-2 year) fix. Once staffing adjusted to a new system, if there were then continued reductions in flying, the junior would again be at risk. This is and will always be true. Even with an elimination of OPF, while it would initially require the furloughess to be brought back and likely many new hires, again with redeuctions in flying those at the junior end would still be in jeopardy; but then it would be somebody else junior, so that's okay, I guess. Only growth can protect jobs, but, then, when we were growing OPF was not an issue.

This is the system we were hired into (at least those of us at the junior end) and in essence, what is being asked, is that everyone's potential income be cut between 0-50% to temporarily fix staffing. Perhaps that is prudent, perhaps foolish, my crystal ball isn't helping with this. There is no such thing as the perfect system which will please everyone.

 

[FreightBumper]

COF bidding

This is a little off the subject, but Mark Detroit put out to schedulers that we had agreed to a contract and would be bidding cof by this weekend. I checked the hot lines and this is NOT true. This is disinformation (read lie) and is designed to fracture the group even more. I told one of the schedulers this and s o now they know the rest of the story. Pass the word.

 

[Bitter]

in essence, what is being asked, is that everyone's potential income be cut between 0-50% to temporarily fix staffing. Perhaps that is prudent, perhaps foolish, my crystal ball isn't helping with this. There is no such thing as the perfect system which will please everyone.

I am sure you did not forget that our furloughed brethren took a 100% hit.

I agree with the rest of your post, no amount of changes can save job losses at an airline in its death dive.......Are we that airline? Is our present brain trust in the flight dept. capable of leading us to growth? (I realise they inherited GonnawayDonnaways mess) None the less, the present Bob le is not his creation......

I think it is time to spring clean the way things are done! It is very negative.

On the OPF front, we should in my opinion, reduce it by the small % necessary to preserve jobs, with snap backs to the 13% level for the company if we grow. This helps us now and rewards them latter if they get the act in order. At least this is some what win, win. For them, for Junior and Senior alike....! Not perfect I know.

We should negotiate contractually, the minute the first guys walks, the OPF should reduce. This is an insentive for the company to exhaust all reasonable avenues prior to furlough. Not to use furlough as a hammer with which to negotiate with. It should be a last ditch effort to protect the company from fiscal harm. Is a Chapter 11 in the works.....Or are we making money.

It also shows that they care about the people that make the airline work!

Why furloughing is bad for business..........It is a very short term thing to do. If your focus is on the long term, the well being of your business and its people, you don't do it.

Does this proves that Abx is not focusing on the long term? Is it a short sighted entity that does not care?

If you treat your people poorly your business and your customers business suffers.

May be the furlough is managements way of saying......Hey stock holders, DHL, ANA and employees of Abx, we are not in this for the long haul. We don't see a future beyond tomorrow. So we are gonna furlough!

Pretty frightening if you look at it with this respect.

As a united group we need to stop thinking of what is good for me now and think about what will postition us all, to still be high wage earners 5,10,15 years from now.

Food for thought.......OUT!

 

[Bitter]

This is a little off the subject, but Mark Detroit put out to schedulers that we had agreed to a contract and would be bidding cof by this weekend. I checked the hot lines and this is NOT true. This is disinformation (read lie) and is designed to fracture the group even more. I told one of the schedulers this and s o now they know the rest of the story. Pass the word.

PASSED

 

[otter1]

The OPF system which allows those very few at the top to nearly double their pay hasn't been in the best interests of the majority - instead of real pay raises we're given the opportunity for additional work. The justification for this during the last civil war within the union (which the good guys lost to the detriment of the majority but advantage to the few) was along the lines of "one day you'll be senior so go along with it".

Many went with it, many are still being carried along by it, and many will no longer ever be senior. "One day it will be your turn" is a premise relying upon continued growth, a growth which unfortunately ran out of steam about a decade ago. Age 65 is also really going to hurt - but not everyone.

I agree totally. Personally I am in favor of some type of cap on OPF. At least we should let more of the group get the benefits of OPF instead of a generally small group at the top. Especially since it looks more and more like there are many who will never be senior.

 

[penguin22]

instead of a generally small group at the top.

you're kidding, right?

I just looked at the MAY opf award, and hit 100 pilots before I got out of the names starting with "H". Maybe somebody can count them all. Lets see if it was really a "small group at the top"

 

[ABXbooger]

it really does benefit a minority

 

[GoABX]

MY PROPOSAL:

In any bid period a crewmember may bid open time up to amount no greater than one shuttle or trips totaling 7 pay days. In the event crewmembers are on furlough, crewmembers shall not be awarded open time or COF, unless they are within 5 years of the FAA mandatory retirement and have not yet reached their annual retirement credit cap. Vacation buy back shall be counted against the 7 day monthly maximum.

====================

Everyone can get a 50% premium over their salary. (Isn't that enough?)

It makes OPF available to more people.

It encourages people to actually take their vacation, while still giving junior people who can't get OPF a chance to make some extra money.

It doesn't penalize prospective retirees. However, once they max out, they have to shut it down for the rest of the year.

It removes the need to reduce the OPF cap from 13% in the event of a furlough.

(Morally I don't think people should bid OPF while there is a furlough but the votes of the greedy are needed too.)

 

[Bitter]

MY PROPOSAL:

It removes the need to reduce the OPF cap from 13% in the event of a furlough.

So you think we should furlough until we are at 13% OPF in every seat in the company....real slick! Are we not trying to save jobs, not create more furloughs?

 

[GoABX]

No Bitter,

If the company were to furlough, the 13% would become irrelevant because like our current situation no one could bid or would be awarded OPF. So it would encourage the company to use less than 13% or use build up lines (options they have now). If that is not clear enough for you or the company, just add a sentence that states in the event of furlough, the 13% OPF cap is reduced to 5%.

 

[Bitter]

I get it

 

[BoxesRus]

Let's be sure to keep our focus on the ball. The OPF boycott is a self-help response to management's violation of the status quo with the ANA contract. We're not going to solve the OPF distribution issue here.

I do completely agree that it is immoral for anyone to be bidding open flying with furloughed hostages on the street. But, really, is anyone surprised by the individuals who put their own greed above all else? Do the names surprise you? Are these people your friends?

Our focus should be on unity. We face an adversary who has demonstrated in the past that his "scum sucking scorpion" pilots have no value to him--aside from putting bonus dollars in his pocket.

 

[ABXbooger]

If you haven't already, listen to the hotline