ABX Furloughs

[mxer]

erichartmann, if this is a lottery, I don't want my ticket. I'm going out quick. Thats my seniority and my problem. Your more senior and I truely hope you are one that gets to stay. I think we all deserve the package in equal amounts. If it is divided by seniority, the more senior gets the lion share AND keeps a pay check. Talk about a lottery ticket. DHL is going away and the junior pilots have flown yellow planes just as long as the senior. Thats why I don't think it should be by seniority. That and look how heated the issue makes people. Those that will be without employment because of DHL, I don't think anyone feels they have one a lottery. An easy solution is for the leadership to list two or three solutions and put it to radification. I for one would be happy to go with what the majority says. Just put it to a vote and then everyone is represented.

 

[laserman2431]

The only place I have to go now is early retirement on a pension that may get jerked out from under me with little or no notice, so I will probably chose to stay. That entitles me to retention, in my view. Doesn't matter where I might go, or why I might go or stay, only that I don't leave. Rentention is to keep enough people around with the right qualifications to fly the aircraft as long as they are needed.

I could have left this past summer. I chose not to.

Unfortunately, they seem to have an excess of people with the "right qualifications to fly the aircraft" at this time.

 

[laserman2431]

erichartmann, if this is a lottery, I don't want my ticket. I'm going out quick. Thats my seniority and my problem. Your more senior and I truely hope you are one that gets to stay. I think we all deserve the package in equal amounts. If it is divided by seniority, the more senior gets the lion share AND keeps a pay check. Talk about a lottery ticket. DHL is going away and the junior pilots have flown yellow planes just as long as the senior. Thats why I don't think it should be by seniority. That and look how heated the issue makes people. Those that will be without employment because of DHL, I don't think anyone feels they have one a lottery. An easy solution is for the leadership to list two or three solutions and put it to radification. I for one would be happy to go with what the majority says. Just put it to a vote and then everyone is represented.

Well said.

 

[laserman2431]

The only place I have to go now is early retirement on a pension that may get jerked out from under me with little or no notice, so I will probably chose to stay. That entitles me to retention, in my view. Doesn't matter where I might go, or why I might go or stay, only that I don't leave. Rentention is to keep enough people around with the right qualifications to fly the aircraft as long as they are needed.

I could have left this past summer. I chose not to.

Grasshopper and the ant.

 

[ABXbooger]

As I initially stated, the only fair way is to divide it up by the number of pilots on the seniority list. period.

if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.

 

[laserman2431]

As I initially stated, the only fair way is to divide it up by the number of pilots on the seniority list. period.

if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.

Sounds like a wise proposal.

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Poverty wants much; but avarice, everything

 

[Classicdriver]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd? I have never heard of such a thing. Why would those staying on the property get a severance?

 

[727Niteflyer]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd? I have never heard of such a thing. Why would those staying on the property get a severance?

I agree. But would you really expect anything less from a pilot. Stab your buddy in the back and get what you can.

 

[laserman2431]

I agree. But would you really expect anything less from a pilot. Stab your buddy in the back and get what you can.

Sad but true!

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From top to bottom of the ladder, greed is aroused without knowing where to find ultimate foothold. Nothing can calm it, since its goal is far beyond all it can attain. Reality seems valueless by comparison with the dreams of fevered imaginations; reality is therefore abandoned. Emile Durkheim

 

[DC-9er]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd?

Severance and Retention aside, if you can assume those that won't get furloughed will still have a job, your point has merit.

But this company has a half billion in debt, 50 million in cash, will most likely lose its biggest customer in 6 months, and still has big pension obligations. It's got bankruptcy written all over it. The stock market has already concluded that; it's selling for 20 cents a share. Most likely we're ALL out of jobs, not just the ones getting furloughed.

It's just not declaring bankruptcy right now, because DHL is still paying the bills, and so we're operating at a profit. But as soon as DHL quits paying the bills, Joe will file BK. Even if he tries to keep ABX flying through BK (and why? he's got Cappy and ATI with cheaper labor, even with the new contract the union’s talking about) those that will still have a job will most certainly have lost their pension.

The severance and retention package is intended to compensate for all of those hardships, not just the ones getting furloughed before the rest of us lose.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']

As I initially stated, the only fair way is to divide it up by the number of pilots on the seniority list. period. if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.[/font]

Isn't that pretty much what the union has proposed?

 

[laserman2431]

Severance and Retention aside, if you can assume those that won't get furloughed will still have a job, your point has merit.

But this company has a half billion in debt, 50 million in cash, will most likely lose its biggest customer in 6 months, and still has big pension obligations. It's got bankruptcy written all over it. The stock market has already concluded that; it's selling for 20 cents a share. Most likely we're ALL out of jobs, not just the ones getting furloughed.

It's just not declaring bankruptcy right now, because DHL is still paying the bills, and so we're operating at a profit. But as soon as DHL quits paying the bills, Joe will file BK. Even if he tries to keep ABX flying through BK (and why? he's got Cappy and ATI with cheaper labor, even with the new contract the union’s talking about) those that will still have a job will most certainly have lost their pension.

The severance and retention package is intended to compensate for all of those hardships, not just the ones getting furloughed before the rest of us lose.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']
Isn't that pretty much what the union has proposed?

No. It isn't what the union proposed. You should watch the video of the meeting.

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Leadership is a privilege to better the lives of others. It is not an opportunity to satisfy personal greed.
Mwai Kibaki

 

[DC-9er]

No. It isn't what the union proposed. You should watch the video of the meeting.

I did. And the hotline. After paying for 6 months health benefits for those furloughed, it gets divided up. Those that get furloughed get it right away. Those that don't, the money is set aside until they lose their job.

If, after 3 years, they haven't lost their job, that money gets put into the pension fund, which benefits everyone, including you.

 

[DC-9er]

if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.

No, if you still have a job, you wouldn't get it. It would go into the pension fund. Which benefits everyone.

It's a fair plan.

 

[FreightBumper]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd? I have never heard of such a thing. Why would those staying on the property get a severance?

You're right about not having a dog in this fight. Plus you only know what people on this board are telling you. Some of the pay is for continued service from May 08 til the end. Everyone deserves part of that pie. We still operate in the high 90% for on time deliveries. Dhl is paying RETENTION for those folks maintaining those numbers. It's just not severance. I am amazed at the opinions from those that no say in this matter. But I guess your job status is perfect so you have lots of free time.

 

[mxer]

Classic,
The reason the severence or retention wouldgo to all pilots is that it is not money from ABX (employer), it is money hrom DHL (customer). We are all effected either by income loss or pension loss. It has potentially been a fatal blow to ABX. Thats why some of us feel that ALL should receive it but should receive it equally. If its not equally divided, then it should only go to those losing their jobs.(IMO)