ABX Furloughs

[laserman2431]

As I initially stated, the only fair way is to divide it up by the number of pilots on the seniority list. period.

if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.

Sounds like a wise proposal.

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Poverty wants much; but avarice, everything

 

[Classicdriver]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd? I have never heard of such a thing. Why would those staying on the property get a severance?

 

[727Niteflyer]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd? I have never heard of such a thing. Why would those staying on the property get a severance?

I agree. But would you really expect anything less from a pilot. Stab your buddy in the back and get what you can.

 

[laserman2431]

I agree. But would you really expect anything less from a pilot. Stab your buddy in the back and get what you can.

Sad but true!

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From top to bottom of the ladder, greed is aroused without knowing where to find ultimate foothold. Nothing can calm it, since its goal is far beyond all it can attain. Reality seems valueless by comparison with the dreams of fevered imaginations; reality is therefore abandoned. Emile Durkheim

 

[DC-9er]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd?

Severance and Retention aside, if you can assume those that won't get furloughed will still have a job, your point has merit.

But this company has a half billion in debt, 50 million in cash, will most likely lose its biggest customer in 6 months, and still has big pension obligations. It's got bankruptcy written all over it. The stock market has already concluded that; it's selling for 20 cents a share. Most likely we're ALL out of jobs, not just the ones getting furloughed.

It's just not declaring bankruptcy right now, because DHL is still paying the bills, and so we're operating at a profit. But as soon as DHL quits paying the bills, Joe will file BK. Even if he tries to keep ABX flying through BK (and why? he's got Cappy and ATI with cheaper labor, even with the new contract the union’s talking about) those that will still have a job will most certainly have lost their pension.

The severance and retention package is intended to compensate for all of those hardships, not just the ones getting furloughed before the rest of us lose.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']

As I initially stated, the only fair way is to divide it up by the number of pilots on the seniority list. period. if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.[/font]

Isn't that pretty much what the union has proposed?

 

[laserman2431]

Severance and Retention aside, if you can assume those that won't get furloughed will still have a job, your point has merit.

But this company has a half billion in debt, 50 million in cash, will most likely lose its biggest customer in 6 months, and still has big pension obligations. It's got bankruptcy written all over it. The stock market has already concluded that; it's selling for 20 cents a share. Most likely we're ALL out of jobs, not just the ones getting furloughed.

It's just not declaring bankruptcy right now, because DHL is still paying the bills, and so we're operating at a profit. But as soon as DHL quits paying the bills, Joe will file BK. Even if he tries to keep ABX flying through BK (and why? he's got Cappy and ATI with cheaper labor, even with the new contract the union’s talking about) those that will still have a job will most certainly have lost their pension.

The severance and retention package is intended to compensate for all of those hardships, not just the ones getting furloughed before the rest of us lose.

[FONT='Calibri','sans-serif']
Isn't that pretty much what the union has proposed?

No. It isn't what the union proposed. You should watch the video of the meeting.

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Leadership is a privilege to better the lives of others. It is not an opportunity to satisfy personal greed.
Mwai Kibaki

 

[DC-9er]

No. It isn't what the union proposed. You should watch the video of the meeting.

I did. And the hotline. After paying for 6 months health benefits for those furloughed, it gets divided up. Those that get furloughed get it right away. Those that don't, the money is set aside until they lose their job.

If, after 3 years, they haven't lost their job, that money gets put into the pension fund, which benefits everyone, including you.

 

[DC-9er]

if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.

No, if you still have a job, you wouldn't get it. It would go into the pension fund. Which benefits everyone.

It's a fair plan.

 

[FreightBumper]

I have no dog in this fight, but a severance for folks not losing their jobs is a bit odd? I have never heard of such a thing. Why would those staying on the property get a severance?

You're right about not having a dog in this fight. Plus you only know what people on this board are telling you. Some of the pay is for continued service from May 08 til the end. Everyone deserves part of that pie. We still operate in the high 90% for on time deliveries. Dhl is paying RETENTION for those folks maintaining those numbers. It's just not severance. I am amazed at the opinions from those that no say in this matter. But I guess your job status is perfect so you have lots of free time.

 

[mxer]

Classic,
The reason the severence or retention wouldgo to all pilots is that it is not money from ABX (employer), it is money hrom DHL (customer). We are all effected either by income loss or pension loss. It has potentially been a fatal blow to ABX. Thats why some of us feel that ALL should receive it but should receive it equally. If its not equally divided, then it should only go to those losing their jobs.(IMO)

 

[TWA]

If you look at the news story that someone posted a few pages earlier in the thread, it says that DHL is pretty much writing ABX a check for the pilot group to use however they please. It is not tied to retention or severance, and can be used for anything as long as the company and union agree on it.

 

[FreightBumper]

If you look at the news story that someone posted a few pages earlier in the thread, it says that DHL is pretty much writing ABX a check for the pilot group to use however they please. It is not tied to retention or severance, and can be used for anything as long as the company and union agree on it.

If you work at ABX, you know it is not the case. The money cannot be used for anything at all. It all falls under the heading of retention and/or severance. DHL has said it is for retention of those who will stay and provide service and severance for those who will leave because of their wonderful track record of management expertise. The company wants it to go to pensions so they get off the hook for a huge liability. Plus the creditors can still get at it for a limited time if we allot it to pension shortfalls. The company does have our best interests at heart. Surprise, surprise.

 

[shooter]

I agree with you FreightBumper. Since nobody responded to any of my questions, I had to dig up my own answers. What I have found seems you are 100% correct. There is no DHL money set aside for the pilots of ABX unless the union and ABX agree to its terms for retention, severance or other related.

What a mess.

In August 2008, ABX and DHL executed a severance and retention agreement. The agreement specifies employee severance and retention benefits that DHL will pay to ABX in conjunction with its U.S. restructuring plan. DHL will reimburse ABX for the cost of non-union employee severance and retention benefits paid in accordance with the agreement. The same agreement includes provisions to pay ABX for crewmember benefits if ABX and the collective bargaining unit for the crewmembers can reach an agreement in regards to the use of those funds for severance, retention or other issues arising from DHL's U.S. restructuring plan.

 

[abxaviator]

UNITED STATES
SECURITIES AND EXCHANGE COMMISSION
December 22, 2008
ORDER GRANTING CONFIDENTIAL TREATMENT
UNDER THE SECURITIES EXCHANGE ACT OF 1934
Air Transport Services Group, Inc.
File No. 0-50368 - CF#22862
___________________________
Air Transport Services Group, Inc. submitted an application under Rule 24b-2 requesting confidential treatment for information it excluded from the Exhibits to a Form 10-Q filed on November 14, 2008.
Based on representations by Air Transport Services Group, Inc. that this information qualifies as confidential commercial or financial information under the Freedom of Information Act, 5 U.S.C. 552(b)(4), the Division of Corporation Finance has determined not to publicly disclose it. Accordingly, excluded information from the following exhibit(s) will not be released to the public for the time period(s) specified:
Exhibit 10.5 through August 10, 2010
Exhibit 10.6 through September 9, 2012
For the Commission, by the Division of Corporation Finance, pursuant to delegated authority:
Rolaine S. Bancroft
Special Counsel

 

[shooter]

What does that mean? (other than the obvious)

Isn't Aug 10th the date of the Hub Services Agreement signing?

EDIT: Nope, Hub agreement was inked Aug 15th.

 

[abxaviator]

The information omitted from Exhibit 10.6 is the pricing they are paying IAI for the 767 conversions.

Exhibit 10.5 deals with the severance and retention plans for all and it is less obvious what has been omitted, but it is from the paragraph dealing with the Pilots Plan.

 

[shooter]

The information omitted from Exhibit 10.6 is the pricing they are paying IAI for the 767 conversions.

Exhibit 10.5 deals with the severance and retention plans for all and it is lees obvious what has been omitted, but it is from the paragraph dealing with the Pilots Plan.

I don't understand why they need to hide those things or the time frames for them.

EDIT: I see the *** at the end of the pilot plan section. But what happened to sub. (v) in section 1? What's up with that?

 

[abxaviator]

Good catch, I did not notice that, I only looked for other "***".

 

[DC-9er]

Thats why some of us feel that ALL should receive it but should receive it equally.

Severance packages have traditionally been based on salary, no matter what kind of job, no matter what industry, going back as long as people have been losing their jobs.

You give somebody a severance, you give them X number of weeks salary, or X number of months salary. That's how it's always been done. That's how ABX is giving severance to the rest of the employees. That's what the union plan is based on.

I challenge Laserman and the rest of you guys who want it divided without regard to salary to cite ONE example where thats been done.

The union plan is fair.

 

[laserman2431]

Severance packages have traditionally been based on salary, no matter what kind of job, no matter what industry, going back as long as people have been losing their jobs.

You give somebody a severance, you give them X number of weeks salary, or X number of months salary. That's how is always been done. That's how ABX is giving severance to the rest of the employees. That's what the union plan is based on.

I challenge Laserman and the rest of you guys who want it divided without regard to salary to cite ONE example where thats been done.

The union plan is fair.

And I would challenge you to share examples of people getting severance pay while keeping their jobs.