ABX Furloughs

[laserman2431]

The union leadership says "The job has a certain value and you are where you are." That pretty well sums it up.

 

[shooter]

It sounds like there would be an effort to find 4 guys to agree on what toppings to get on a pizza. I hope everyone decides to pull together to do the right thing. Speaking personally, I would gladly give up my severance for a job that gets me a paycheck every two weeks. Retention is for not leaving if I found one now.

Where do you guys go from here? Do you need to go to the company with a plan? Vote on your own plan? Vote on a company plan? Where are you as far as the guys that will be gone this JAN and FEB getting their retention and severance? EDIT: Or the ones already gone?

 

[laserman2431]

So you think the few who get to stay for a month or two maybe six if lucky should be happy seeing all the severance given to the ones who are furloughrd now?
Then what do the rest get when their jobs go away?
Dhl is supposed to be giving this money to the whole pilot group as severance not just the few who think they need it more!

OK. Here's what we do.

Dave Ross said "The company’s end vision for crew staffing is 230 active crew members and a total 27 either on LOA or in management for a total number of 257."

For those 257 who will still have a job, you should get a choice. If you do not have confidence, take a voluntary furlough with severance. If you think you will be better off staying, then stay with the company and continue to enjoy your paycheck while your brothers are out on the street using their severance to transition to a new life. Assess the situation. Make a decision.

You shouldn't have it both ways and grab with both hands.

 

[TWA]

OK. Here's what we do.

Dave Ross said "The company’s end vision for crew staffing is 230 active crew members and a total 27 either on LOA or in management for a total number of 257."

For those 257 who will still have a job, you should get a choice. If you do not have confidence, take a voluntary furlough with severance. If you think you will be better off staying, then stay with the company and continue to enjoy your paycheck while your brothers are out on the street. Assess the situation. Make a decision.

But won't they still be effected by lower wages post DHL? Shouldn't those staying still get something, as their pay will be cut as a result of DHL?

 

[laserman2431]

But won't they still be effected by lower wages post DHL? Shouldn't those staying still get something, as their pay will be cut as a result of DHL?

The union says the wages will stay where they are. And even if they were to get something, it shouldn't be the lions share!

 

[727Niteflyer]

The union says the wages will stay where they are. And even if they were to get something, it shouldn't be the lions share!

The wages cant stay the same as they are now. In order for ABX to compete wages, work rules are all going to have to change. ABX is now in competition with the likes of Arrow, centurion, even southern.

The union and pilot group are going to have to be very smart in how you negotiate in the future.

 

[laserman2431]

The wages cant stay the same as they are now. In order for ABX to compete wages, work rules are all going to have to change. ABX is now in competition with the likes of Arrow, centurion, even southern.

The union and pilot group are going to have to be very smart in how you negotiate in the future.

Re. "The wages cant stay the same as they are now." You should watch the video of the last meeting.

Given the choice, I would chose to remain even in the post DHL scenario.

The objection is to having your cake and eating it too.

 

[DC-9er]

OK. Here's what we do.

Dave Ross said "The company’s end vision for crew staffing is 230 active crew members and a total 27 either on LOA or in management for a total number of 257."

For those 257 who will still have a job, you should get a choice. If you do not have confidence, take a voluntary furlough with severance. If you think you will be better off staying, then stay with the company and continue to enjoy your paycheck while your brothers are out on the street using their severance to transition to a new life. Assess the situation. Make a decision.

You shouldn't have it both ways and grab with both hands.

Let me get this straight. So when ABX shuts down once DHL leaves, you would have everybody who's now joining you in the unemployment line get nothing. And no pension to boot. Well I guess you'd finally have your revenge on senior pilots.

the union plan is fair.

 

[CRACKHEAD]

The wages cant stay the same as they are now. In order for ABX to compete wages, work rules are all going to have to change. ABX is now in competition with the likes of Arrow, centurion, even southern.

Not true, ABX has the B-767 and that is what DHL likes. They carry a lot of cargo and they are fuel efficient. DHL does not want a three engine or a four engine bird.

 

[727Niteflyer]

I thought abx was finished with dhl in june

 

[erichartmann]

But I'll tell you what I AM entitled to. When the union local assumes the responsibility of negotiating on my behalf, I AM entitled to fair representation!

And so are the folks have worked here 30+ years for a pension they may not get. Argueably they could have demanded the pension in increased wages/benefits over that term. They did not, but they ARE entitled to a piece of the pie you seem to want for yourself. You seem to be looking at this money as though you and few others have hit the lottery. As has been pointed out this is both Severance AND Retention. Those who stay should also get a piece of the action. They may find themselves out of work with no prospects at all AND no retirement to speak of in very short order. Giving you the lion's share or all of the of the money earmarked for Severence and RETENTION does not provide them with fair representation.

 

[laserman2431]

Let me get this straight. So when ABX shuts down once DHL leaves, you would have everybody who's now joining you in the unemployment line get nothing. And no pension to boot. Well I guess you'd finally have your revenge on senior pilots.

the union plan is fair.

You should watch the video from the last union meeting! They all seem optimistic about the company going forward.

But, like I said, if you don't feel that way, take the voluntary furlough and cash out. Just don't try to have it both ways. If you don't think the company has a future, I will be happy to trade places with you!

And can you tell me what makes you think I seek revenge on senior pilots?

 

[laserman2431]

And some folks have worked here 30+ years for a pension they may not get. Argueably they could have demanded the pension in increased wages/benefits over that term. They did not, but they ARE entitled to a piece of the pie you seem to want for yourself. You seem to be looking at this money as though you and few others have hit the lottery. As has been pointed out this is both Severance AND Retention. Those who stay should also get a piece of the action. They may find themselves out of work with no prospects at all AND no retirement to speak of in very short order.

Severance AND Retention. Like you're going somewhere?

 

[erichartmann]

Severance AND Retention. Like you're going somewhere?

The only place I have to go now is early retirement on a pension that may get jerked out from under me with little or no notice, so I will probably chose to stay. That entitles me to retention, in my view. Doesn't matter where I might go, or why I might go or stay, only that I don't leave. Rentention is to keep enough people around with the right qualifications to fly the aircraft as long as they are needed.

I could have left this past summer. I chose not to.

 

[DC-9er]

Severance AND Retention. Like you're going somewhere?

I'm hearing of a lot more heading to Korean and ANA

 

[mxer]

erichartmann, if this is a lottery, I don't want my ticket. I'm going out quick. Thats my seniority and my problem. Your more senior and I truely hope you are one that gets to stay. I think we all deserve the package in equal amounts. If it is divided by seniority, the more senior gets the lion share AND keeps a pay check. Talk about a lottery ticket. DHL is going away and the junior pilots have flown yellow planes just as long as the senior. Thats why I don't think it should be by seniority. That and look how heated the issue makes people. Those that will be without employment because of DHL, I don't think anyone feels they have one a lottery. An easy solution is for the leadership to list two or three solutions and put it to radification. I for one would be happy to go with what the majority says. Just put it to a vote and then everyone is represented.

 

[laserman2431]

The only place I have to go now is early retirement on a pension that may get jerked out from under me with little or no notice, so I will probably chose to stay. That entitles me to retention, in my view. Doesn't matter where I might go, or why I might go or stay, only that I don't leave. Rentention is to keep enough people around with the right qualifications to fly the aircraft as long as they are needed.

I could have left this past summer. I chose not to.

Unfortunately, they seem to have an excess of people with the "right qualifications to fly the aircraft" at this time.

 

[laserman2431]

erichartmann, if this is a lottery, I don't want my ticket. I'm going out quick. Thats my seniority and my problem. Your more senior and I truely hope you are one that gets to stay. I think we all deserve the package in equal amounts. If it is divided by seniority, the more senior gets the lion share AND keeps a pay check. Talk about a lottery ticket. DHL is going away and the junior pilots have flown yellow planes just as long as the senior. Thats why I don't think it should be by seniority. That and look how heated the issue makes people. Those that will be without employment because of DHL, I don't think anyone feels they have one a lottery. An easy solution is for the leadership to list two or three solutions and put it to radification. I for one would be happy to go with what the majority says. Just put it to a vote and then everyone is represented.

Well said.

 

[laserman2431]

The only place I have to go now is early retirement on a pension that may get jerked out from under me with little or no notice, so I will probably chose to stay. That entitles me to retention, in my view. Doesn't matter where I might go, or why I might go or stay, only that I don't leave. Rentention is to keep enough people around with the right qualifications to fly the aircraft as long as they are needed.

I could have left this past summer. I chose not to.

Grasshopper and the ant.

 

[ABXbooger]

As I initially stated, the only fair way is to divide it up by the number of pilots on the seniority list. period.

if you still have a job with ABX, that is what your seniority entitles you to. no hard feelings, you get the severance and keep your job, have fun.