ABX Air to Acquire CHI

[b707guy]

What I'll add to that is that a -73 can be loaded with 40K of you-name-it and still make a destination 11 hours away with reserve. Add weight to subtract time and vice versa, but you get the point. A -71 can go maybe 8 hours with such a load. Despite the fact that our mx group has lost a number of great people, the planes are still doing well. Nothing like the darkest of dark days of the YIP group when every plane was "yellow-sticker city". The only reason the combi reliability rate is lower is that they operate in such a way that replacing one with a spare (we have two scheduled combi runs, and 4 aircraft) isn't practical because of the places they fly. If I were king for a day, I'm sure I'd find out just how little I know about it all, but, I think we could do better. Either way, the reliability rates are fantastic for such a jet.

One other thing we may be losing sight of with talk of merging lists and all, is that there are still two major customer bases here, one being the work ABX is doing, the other being BAX as served by us and Cappy. Unless there are other super secret plans on the part of perhaps Deutche Post (DHL) and Deutche Bahn (BAX), the operations seem to be in competition with each other. We just provide our services to BAX, as I guess Astar does for DHL. Has ABX made any indication of wanting to support BAX's operations? The press release and conference call seemed to indicate that ABX Holdings is interested in our combi and other military work, with no mention of the rest. There was also great interest in the age of our fleet, but no feel for how the provided answer (38-40 yrs) was taken. The point is that there are a lot of outside considerations that would be affected by the three of us merging lists that would complicate the operations while keeping things on the level for us. I feel there's a lot more coming that will change things entirely.

BTW, I'm one who has been pushing for a change to IBT 1224 for a long time.

 

[xspud]

Does anyone know what they would like to do with our DC'8's? New markets? contracts,etc...Thanks for the info

I think ABX is planning to keep doing the same thing for the most part, they are looking to expand their reach into the charter/ACMI market by tapping into the contacts and expertise you already have. But I know we've seen a lot of possible trips come and go because they didn't fit our operation--I'm sure mgt is hoping & assuming they'll be a fit for someone else in the group.

Given that business model, I do think it's essential that the pilot groups work together, one representative body and possibly one master seniority list. Like Mr. Sky, I also don't want to lose QOL, but we need to take whatever steps it takes to prevent new aircraft/flying from being granted to the "lowest bidder" of the group.

I think it was Mr. Sky that referred to a "small radical element" in the ABX pilot group. I know we have them, just as every group does, but it would be a tiny minority here that thinks we should staple anyone to the bottom of the list. I know the majority here understands that we'll have to work together or we'll be worked against each other whether intentionally or unintentionally.

 

[AV8OR]

It appears that sec. A1.F.1 Merger Protections of the contract spells out that ABX Holdings is bound by the contract if they are defined as a successor, assign, assignee, transferee, administrator, executor, and/or trustee. So if that is the case the companies can be operated separately but the flying must be done by those on the abx seniority list. And any future flying must also be done by those on the seniority list. So it looks like separate companies, one contract, one seniority list?

And since the Holding company did not come into effect now, I would say the dhl acmi is with abx air, inc.

And I am not wanting to put anyone out of a job. I just dont want to be cannabilized again and see our ops shrink and others grow at the expense of us.

You have got to be friggin kidding me. Pot...kettle. Kettle.....pot.

 

[AV8OR]

And before DHL bought Airborne, our freight was Airborne Express. (not DHL freight)

Yes, but then DHL did actually BUY your freight. They bought your freight. Airborne sold it's freight. Airborne freight ceased to exist. Airborne freight became DHL freight.

Bottom line coming here is, Astar pilots are bas***ds for filing a scope grievance against DHL protecting their claim on DHL freight, but if 1224 does it claiming ABX holding's freight, it'll be fully justifiable by 1224 standards. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.

And by the way, I know, I know, 1224 pilots aren't trying to take CHI jobs from CAC or ATI, but, what if, say Holdings decides to transfer some CHI flying to ABX Air and CAC or ATI files a scope grievance claiming that flying is rightly theirs? I'll bet the hugs and kisses go the way of the dodo.

Alright, done with my rant. Looks like yall are gonna finally have something to do for a while other than tell AStar pilots how sorry we are for filing a grievance. Best of luck to all.

 

[SkyMiles]

AV8OR,
Kidding you, no not kidding you. And what would I be kidding you about? Can you tell me what would be wrong about getting the 3 airlines under one roof and one contract? Love the little "kettle,pot" analogy though. Very creative, wrong in this case,but creative.

I did say this: "Once again, in my understanding, by adhering to our scope no one will loose a job and all boats will be lifted by the tide. Unlike astars grievance. And yes it is a warm welcome. Played correctly, by both management and the unions, all 3 airlines could be in great shape in the years to come."

 

[hvydriver]

AV8OR,
Kidding you, no not kidding you. And what would I be kidding you about? Can you tell me what would be wrong about getting the 3 airlines under one roof and one contract? Love the little "kettle,pot" analogy though. Very creative, wrong in this case,but creative.

SM,

I'd listen to the conference call regarding the CHI purchase. Anytime a CEO talks about "Cost Synergies", it's not good for employees. According to Fox/Hete, there is no intention of merging the companies. All 3 operate separately. If that is their intention, your chances of getting a "one roof one contract" are exactly zero. I think it sucks, but that's the way it is. Welcome to DHL world.

 

[SkyMiles]

I know hvy, I heard that over and over as well during the call. Time will tell. We just have to hope that the money spent on our scope attorney was worth it and somehow he managed to weave a little strength into the contract language pertaining to these matters.

 

[ABXbooger]

mgmt can say all they want about how they are going to run things, they say things all the time. Anyone else think this is going to play big on the contract front?

 

[rotor&wing]

We just have to hope that the money spent on our scope attorney was worth it and somehow he managed to weave a little strength into the contract language pertaining to these matters.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahaahahaha..................

OK, that was good for a laugh.......Keep 'em coming!

 

[TWA]

Well, unfortunately, the scope clause may not cover this type of acquisition. In a way, ABX was also just sold/bought because it is now owned by a holding company, which also bought two more airlines. As long as the three operational companies stay separate, there is no scope grievance. Now if any of the airlines are merged within, or work/contracts get moved around, then the games begin.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

Yes, but then DHL did actually BUY your freight. They bought your freight. Airborne sold it's freight. Airborne freight ceased to exist. Airborne freight became DHL freight.

And in a simultaneous wink of the eye, hey presto - DHL Airways by a cunning act of corporate sorcery gets flung into the ACMI void to subsequently rise from the ashes as Astar. In one swift move the scope claim to carry said freight becomes a mute point.

Bottom line coming here is, Astar pilots are bas***ds for filing a scope grievance against DHL protecting their claim on DHL freight, but if 1224 does it claiming ABX holding's freight, it'll be fully justifiable by 1224 standards. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.

Being a bit hard on yourselves there. You're not *Astar*s, just a little backward about making friends and influencing people. You'd have thought we had mutual interests tied up in this, it's honestly regrettable that the failing union you're affiliated with couldn't rise to the occasion. I,and I sincerely believe the majority of the ABX group, will be disappointed if 1224 follows a similar path. Such opportunities aren't to be spoiled by infighting. There's plenty of freight for everyone and division between the players simply results in a net gain for management at the expense of the employees.

 

[SkyMiles]

TWA,
The scope section specifically addresses a holding company transaction via definitions of affiliate. I am no lawyer but it is my understanding that provisions were drawn up for exactly this type of scenario.

 

[hvydriver]

TWA,
The scope section specifically addresses a holding company transaction via definitions of affiliate. I am no lawyer but it is my understanding that provisions were drawn up for exactly this type of scenario.

SM,

Last one on this, as the Colts/Pats game is about to start. Our scope language was even tighter than yours is. And our case was more straightforward. See where we are? Welcome to DHL world.

 

[TWA]

TWA,
The scope section specifically addresses a holding company transaction via definitions of affiliate. I am no lawyer but it is my understanding that provisions were drawn up for exactly this type of scenario.

In that case, please disregard everything I just said. Thanks!

 

[penguin22]

Bottom line coming here is, Astar pilots are bas***ds for filing a scope grievance against DHL protecting their claim on DHL freight, but if 1224 does it claiming ABX holding's freight, it'll be fully justifiable by 1224 standards. I knew it, I knew it, I knew it.

AV8OR has done a great job lately of showing us all the narrow-minded arrogance of ALPA 017.

They see the only solution to a scope grievance is to file injunctions to shut down the other airline and take their jobs. The only people on here claiming thats what we'll do is Astar pilots. Not one ABX pilot has.