ABX Air to Acquire CHI

[HeavyjetDC8]

Xenia - good, lots of room for expansion. Excellent choice.

 

[TWA]

Xenia - good, lots of room for expansion. Excellent choice.

I hope you're not thinking of Xenia Ohio.:laugh:

 

[countbat]

It all depends in what ABX management wants to do with the new purchase and the reason why they did the purchase. If it is just for market monopoly I wouldn't be surprised for ABX to get rid of Cappy and ATI, and try to cover all the freight by their own capacity. If it is just for growing and expansion it might be possible to operate in 3 different airlines, everyone with its own market. Only the future will tell. This kind of acquire is new. It will be interesting to watch. Good luck to everybody involved

 

[Jurasicpilot]

Well, Its a good play for managment in midst of a contract negotiations. You could give the ATI guys a small raise to do the same job and still save 40% or Capital and save 60% over current ABX labor rates. Thats across the board not just flight crew labor rates. You guys had better get yourselves all in the same union.

Ya know what, take a close look at my avatar. Go sip on that for a while. Its all going to be OK and you wont be used against one another. ABX is not going to use ATI are Capi just to save a buck or two.

Got Scope?

 

[flyinboxes]

I wonder if they will attempt to put the ANA flying under the CHI certificate? Since it's a relatively small operation at this point. Have the ABX/DHL certificate, the CHI certificate with the 76's in KIX and the ATI certificate for BAX. This will get interesting indeed.

 

[Jurasicpilot]

Well doesn't ATI do most of the international work? The 8 (70's) will out range and out lift that 76-200.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

Well, Its a good play for managment in midst of a contract negotiations. You could give the ATI guys a small raise to do the same job and still save 40% or Capital and save 60% over current ABX labor rates. Thats across the board not just flight crew labor rates. You guys had better get yourselves all in the same union.

Ya know what, take a close look at my avatar. Go sip on that for a while. Its all going to be OK and you wont be used against one another. ABX is not going to use ATI are Capi just to save a buck or two.

Got Scope?

Perhaps not such a good move for management at all. ATI/Cappy would have to be nuts to do the same work for less now that it's a common parent company. All three of this new ABX group are union (although Cappy is only alpo - union lite) and management having their wicked way is less than assured.

If you want to fuel scenarios consider that Astar isn't part of this group and is mired in a contractual dispute, the freight they carry not being theirs but belonging to DHL. Scope we all have, but referenced to what?

Also consider that DHL may now actually wake up and decide to settle things with its favored Astar child at Wilmington and fleet plan to longterm remove the ABX pain in their rear end. Or DP could dig deep into their pockets and buy the lot, and if they're serious about being a successful player in the US market they may now have to.

The waters get muddier, fun to watch the chaos though.

And yes TWA, Xenia OH it was, but not seriously.

 

[countbat]

Everything might be just DHL's game in its tendancy to get as much as possible over US market. We have Fedex and UPS left, as all american giant airlines. All others have been purchased in a way or other by DHL, or DHL has a very heavy word to say. FDX and UPS are the only big american freight companies left, Kitty Hawk (delf destruct), Emery (purchased by UPS) and BAX through CHI (taken over by DHL through ABX), Now DHL has Willmington, possible Ft Wayne, and Toledo. Every company out there except FDX /UPS are working more or less for DHL. It looks like DHL is the biggest winner from all these transformations. If it's true the good part will be the good folks of CHI will not lose their jobs. Darn germans....I tought we kicked their asses twice.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

All well and good countbat, but DHL doesn't control the ABX group and the ACMI terms under which ABX works for DHL are risible. True that all the smaller non UPS/FedEx carriers are amalgamating, but I'm not certain it's to DHL's benefit. In many ways, the opportunity for DHL to cheaply attain control has passed.

 

[nitefr8dog]

I wonder if they will attempt to put the ANA flying under the CHI certificate? Since it's a relatively small operation at this point. Have the ABX/DHL certificate, the CHI certificate with the 76's in KIX and the ATI certificate for BAX. This will get interesting indeed.

It would be really hard to get another certiicate approved to operate out of Japan. The JAB will not even let ABX add the third aircraft at this time. It took an act of God just to get approval for Abx to run the two aircraft now!

 

[nitefr8dog]

Well doesn't ATI do most of the international work? The 8 (70's) will out range and out lift that 76-200.

And out spend them!

 

[TWA]

And yes TWA, Xenia OH it was, but not seriously.

I don't know why it wouldn't be serious, we've already got a hangar that will fit half of a DC 9 and an 8000 gal. fuel tank! imp:

 

[shooter]

My guess the company will fight going to a single carrier. CHI had them separate for a reason. Just look at the pay differences between the 3 airlines. The synergies would have to be pretty great to wrap everything together. Pilots are only part of the equation. (Mechanics, admin, etc.)

Under the holding company umbrella Hete has access to the resources but he can strip them out at his pleasure. So I'm sure future 76s will be offered to both ABX and CCIA, so who wants to operate them cheaper? Merging certificates also wastes the value of the CCIA 76 ticket. Along the same line of thought, ABX now has access to 727 paperwork so how might this be used against Astar? I can think of a few possibilities and none of them are good.

I have no information on the condition of the 8's and 72s, but even if the were in excellent mechanical condition like the ABX birds, they are still fuel hogs. How long do you tolerate that? and who gets the replacements? We are back to the Whipsawville.

The 3 (4 if you count Astar) pilot groups have got to exert their influence to have one airline. We are have the power to do this is the question. Today, this all sounds very logical, but when you are faced with losing seniority and seat position versus "your" airline picking up a dozen new planes....there is a great temptation to be short sighted. Even if it is your own decision to take the bait, bitterness will eventually set in over the fact that a narrow body FO is making more than a wide body Captain.

Everyone will face tough decisions in the future.

first, thanks for the reply! But I don't think the company will fight a single carrier for a few reasons. The largest being that ABX is the biggest penny pinching company I have ever seen. Not cheap, mind you, just penny pinching. They treat their employees pretty good with good beni's and I don't think they would change their attitude from how they have always operated just because they bought CHI. They would not waste time money and resources having 3 operating groups. Like you said, pilots are only part of the equation. Its obvious they plan to offer the whole lot to customers, including DHL. I don't see them sending a customer to three different offices for quotes and capabilities. And then you have the whole "this group can operate like this, but if you use this aircraft the crew can only do this" kind of thing that I see they would NOT want.

I don't know why CHI kept ATI and Capital separate, but there is a new boss in the head office.

Booger, I don't want to throw $%#& at the fan and I don't think GoABX does either. I just think this can be a great thing for ABX and its employees which now include ATI and Capital. Working together is what is best for all involved and the pilots getting on the same page is huge in making sure the waters do not get muddy. If not, I can see it now: call ABX only to hear if you are flying DHL charter or need to talk to KILN operations please press 1, if you are flying BAX charter or need to talk to KMCO operations please press 2, if you are flying.....

I just think one umbrella is coming, but what do I know?

 

[SkyMiles]

anyone know what time the hete meeting is tonight?

 

[shooter]

anyone know what time the hete meeting is tonight?

Hangar 1004 at 1:30 p.m., 3:30 p.m., 9:30 p.m., 10:30 p.m., and 11:30 p.m.

if there is a pilot meeting, it would follow the 11:30 hangar talk.

 

[Tired in KTol]

Holy sh*t......that's about all I have to say about that.

Yeah what he said.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

anyone know what time the hete meeting is tonight?

2AM in the crew lounge. Bring popcorn.

 

[erichartmann]

1224 Contract Scope

From the 1224 Teamsters/ABX CBA negotiated in 2003:

"4. Transactions Not Involving Operational Merger
In the event of a Complete Transaction or Partial Transaction with another air carrier that does not contemplate an operational merger, the Company and any Affiliate, or the surviving or acquiring air carrier if different than the Company, shall, unless it has the Union’s consent, keep the operations of the Company or any Affiliate separate from those of the other air carrier; forbear from interchanging crewmembers or aircraft between carriers; and adhere to the crewmember protections set forth in Article 1, Section F.2.d and f. above. The Union shall not unreasonably withhold such consent. In the event of a later decision to merge the operations of the Company or any Affiliate with those of the other air carrier, the Company or any Affiliate, or the surviving or acquiring carrier if different from the Company, shall adhere to the crewmember protections set forth in Article 1.F 2.a. through F.2.f."

It would apear from the above that the ABX Holding could operate the companies seperately. No merger of operations. No merger of seniority lists. No interchange of equipment. Seperate business under one umbrella.

This could be an exit strategy for Joe. It could also be one for Daz. This now gives ABX Holding, the parent company of ABX Air, the ability to operate 727s. We (meaning ABX Holding) already had DC-8's, now we will have DC-8-71 & 73. This leaves out the Busses, but with 5 more 767's coming I think they could go the way of the dodo. It would appear ABX Holding has put itself in a position to be able to haul all DHL's freight in the U.S. again if Astar were to go away. DHL might very well threaten to take its 49% equity in the form of the 20 or so 727's Astar owns and transfer them to Cappy if Astar's pilot's don't agree to a concessionary CBA. It won't come from DHL that way of course. It will come from Daz in the form of threat that DHL is nervous about the potential labor unrest (or words to that effect) and is considering moving "it's" aircraft to another carrier to insure no interruption of service. Daz will probably tell the Astar pilots this will effectively put an end to Astar.

The same senario might also be played out at ABX Air. "Sell" the 767's to CHI. I'm not sure how a court would look at the word "interchange" in the scope. I hope the fact that the aircraft would still be flying for the same customer, hauling the same freight, and even be part of the same parent would preclude this, but the threat might well be made. Unfortuantely for Astar, if the senario I outlined above were to play out they are not part of the ABX Holding family and probably would not have the same protection, such as it is.

I don't think we have seen all the moves yet by a long shot.

 

[flyinboxes]

The DAZ has already played those cards. It's to late for threats, we grow tired and wouldn't listen with a gun to our heads. We are at the end game with only one issue to resolve. Trust me , there will be no concessions. The numbers will soon be released on the money DHL sunk in to lil ol ASSTAr. Rumour has it in the 200 million range. 20 Boeings = only 20 million. It seems Hete has read your contract. This is far from over which is obvious, it's impossible to guess.

 

[SkyMiles]

if anyone attends the meeting could you please give us a rundown of what was said, or not said as the case may be?