ABX Air to Acquire CHI

[shooter]

Any ATI guys........

I have a few questions if you can help answer. Not really that important, just trying to figure a few things out in my head.

1. when did CHI buy the 767's?
2. who did they buy them from?
3. what is powering them?
4. I heard CHI is dumping the boeing conversion for the IAI conversion. Do you know when that decision was made?

same for the one 757, too.

Thanks for your help!

 

[Jurassic Jet]

The DAZ has already played those cards. It's to late for threats, we grow tired and wouldn't listen with a gun to our heads. We are at the end game with only one issue to resolve. Trust me , there will be no concessions. The numbers will soon be released on the money DHL sunk in to lil ol ASSTAr. Rumour has it in the 200 million range. 20 Boeings = only 20 million. It seems Hete has read your contract. This is far from over which is obvious, it's impossible to guess.

Boxes,

Any truth to the rumor that the CAT II conversion of ya'lls aircraft has been stopped?

 

[AV8OR]

Boxes,

Any truth to the rumor that the CAT II conversion of ya'lls aircraft has been stopped?

Nope, got Cat II training in atleast 2 a/c types going on nearly every day.

 

[NERVOUS]

It would be really hard to get another certiicate approved to operate out of Japan. The JAB will not even let ABX add the third aircraft at this time. It took an act of God just to get approval for Abx to run the two aircraft now!

Polar anyone???

Somethin' 'bout 6 new frequencies awared to their certificate???

 

[Jurassic Jet]

Polar anyone???

Somethin' 'bout 6 new frequencies awared to their certificate???

A route authority is a little different than wet leasing to a foreign carrier.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Polar/Atlas IS hiring.

cliff
YIP

 

[b707guy]

Any ATI guys........

I have a few questions if you can help answer. Not really that important, just trying to figure a few things out in my head.

1. when did CHI buy the 767's?
2. who did they buy them from?
3. what is powering them?
4. I heard CHI is dumping the boeing conversion for the IAI conversion. Do you know when that decision was made?

same for the one 757, too.

Thanks for your help!

Can't really answer those questions, other than I understand that there was some contention with the Boeing mod, and that we wanted Pratt-powered airplanes. Wouldn't surprise me one bit to hear that at least #4 is true. Regardless, we were promised a jet on the ramp about this time last year. We aren't even close as we speak. Maybe this new relationship will light a fire under the collective arses involved and we can get these planes back in the air where they belong.

Regarding Shooter's comment on why ATI and Cappy never consolidated, we are really two different companies with entirely different ops specs. The only real consolidation that might have made sense would have been to combine operations management to save a bit on personnel and maybe facilities costs. Our certificates, though, are far from interchangeable. I can see it happening sometime down the road, but at least until now, there really wasn't any need to do it. It will certainly be interesting to see how we (crewdogs, mx, pretty much everyone...) as pawns are played out now. In all honesty, I'm hopeful for a brighter future for us all!

 

[shooter]

b707guy, thanks for the response. I am sure it will work out well for all involved. Looks like growth and diversity are key with all 5 companies including the 3 airlines under the new ABX Holdings. And all are looking bright if this passes the government mustard. Who knows how it will look in 2 years, but it should be large with a future mapped out.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

So it's Capital Air Cargo, ATI and ABX all owned by ABX Holdings???

Does CAT fit into this somewhere?

cliff
YIP

 

[TWA]

Looks like growth and diversity are key with all 5 companies including the 3 airlines under the new ABX Holdings.

Ok, I see the three airlines under ABX Holdings, but what are the other two companies? Are they really companies or just shell holding companies for the airlines?

 

[l8fr82hub]

The other companies are:

Cargo Aircraft Management, Inc. (CAM) provides efficient and personalized service to air carriers and aircraft owners by providing customized passenger to cargo aircraft conversion management services. CAM's also provides ongoing cargo aircraft asset management services to owners of cargo aircraft looking to outsource the day to day management of owning aircraft. CAM technical staff has over 50 years of cargo operations, aircraft maintenance and cargo conversion experience and can provide operating and route analysis.

CargoReservations.com, Inc. (CR) was formed in 2000 as a real-time Internet based freight exchange. CR brings together sellers of "spot" freight space with buyers looking for real time quotes. With patent pending technology to negotiate contracts online in real-time with instantaneous communications, the exchange can be used as a public exchange, or by agreement with CR, as proprietary private labeled exchange.

LGSTX Services, Inc. (LGSTX) provides cargo aircraft charter brokerage services worldwide as well as specialized general sales agency representation throughout Central and South America. Aircraft Charter Brokerage is available on a global basis for any size aircraft, 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. General Sales Agency (GSA) services in Central and South America support the global air carrier and freight forwarding community with a network of offices staffed with air freight veterans with local product knowledge and long term relationships. LGSTX offers one stop shopping backed over 15 years of cargo charter and logistics experience. LGSTX is headquartered at the Miami International Airport.

 

[penguin22]

I wonder if they will attempt to put the ANA flying under the CHI certificate? Since it's a relatively small operation at this point. Have the ABX/DHL certificate, the CHI certificate with the 76's in KIX and the ATI certificate for BAX. This will get interesting indeed.

As long as ABX and the CHI airlines are operated separately, I'm pretty sure our scope would prevent transfer of any ANA flying to ATI or anybody else. And JCAB authority specifies ABX Air anyway, so any future ANA expansion couldn't just be handed to somebody else.

A warm welcome to the ATI and Cappy guys/gals. :beer: Let us all work together for a prosperous career. Rest assured, I highly doubt you'll ever see a grievance/injunction coming from Local 1224 trying to shut you guys down (a la Astar). Let's show ALPA how two unions can actually live and let live right next door to each other. Better yet, why not join together under the same local's roof! Our union hall is quite nice!

btw. ATI, are you guys Cat 2?

 

[NERVOUS]

A route authority is a little different than wet leasing to a foreign carrier.

I'm just thinking more along the lines of the big picture.

Well with Polar being 49% owned by DHL and all. My guess now is that any crews out there that have anything to do with DHL in their cargo holds, have not seen the end of things played out, AND I think it will be collectively a good thing for all. (i.e. notin' but expansion from here on out.)

At least, I hope so!

 

[oldawg]

A question about the ABX/DHL ACMI agreement. Is the contract between DHL and ABX Air or between DHL and ABX Holdings? It seems to me that would be a huge difference in our scope protection.

 

[penguin22]

A question about the ABX/DHL ACMI agreement. Is the contract between DHL and ABX Air or between DHL and ABX Holdings? It seems to me that would be a huge difference in our scope protection.

Since ABX Holding doesn't yet exist, the ACMI is with ABX Air. But you can bet that Joe will change that, or at least try to. That could be a future battle. Or Joe could just enter into a new, separate ACMI with ATI/Cappy and DHL.
Actually, I think the ANA flying is more locked up for current ABX pilots than DHL flying. Because the JCAB authority is attached to our certificate. DHL already has numerous airlines flying for them. No big deal to add to the list.

 

[SkyMiles]

It appears that sec. A1.F.1 Merger Protections of the contract spells out that ABX Holdings is bound by the contract if they are defined as a successor, assign, assignee, transferee, administrator, executor, and/or trustee. So if that is the case the companies can be operated separately but the flying must be done by those on the abx seniority list. And any future flying must also be done by those on the seniority list. So it looks like separate companies, one contract, one seniority list?

And since the Holding company did not come into effect now, I would say the dhl acmi is with abx air, inc.

And I am not wanting to put anyone out of a job. I just dont want to be cannabilized again and see our ops shrink and others grow at the expense of us.

 

[SkyMiles]

penguin,
that is a possible scenario. In 18 months or whenever the original acmi expires, a new acmi is struck with chi. DHL gets their doors. The 9's will be gone and we get cut in half. However, the chi 727's are already flying with someones freight so you run into a lift problem. I hope this scope is worth something because there is no reason that joe would grow a business with higher operating costs when he has 2 low cost operators at his disposal (no offence meant). It just stresses that chi and ati need to be under our contract and affiliation.

 

[penguin22]

from our Scope...

2) Parallel Operations and Asset Dispositions
a) Except as otherwise provided in this Article 1, the
Company shall not directly or through an Affiliate establish
any new airline and/or air carrier, or acquire a controlling
interest in any air carrier which conducts airline operations,
including international operations, of the type covered by
Article 1, Section E.1., unless such operations are performed
by crewmembers on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember
Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement to the
same extent as if the operations were performed in and for
the service of ABX Air, Inc.
(emphasis added) So on second glance our DHL flying looks pretty secure too.

Again, I'm sure we can protect our scope without any grievance or injunctions that try to steal existing jobs.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

2) Parallel Operations and Asset Dispositions
a) Except as otherwise provided in this Article 1, the
Company shall not directly or through an Affiliate establish
any new airline and/or air carrier, or acquire a controlling
interest in any air carrier which conducts airline operations,
including international operations, of the type covered by
Article 1, Section E.1., unless such operations are performed
by crewmembers on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember
Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement to the
same extent as if the operations were performed in and for
the service of ABX Air, Inc.
(emphasis added) So on second glance our DHL flying looks pretty secure too.

Again, I'm sure we can protect our scope without any grievance or injunctions that try to steal existing jobs.

Once again, I'm sure this is going to end up in court and be subject to a judges decision of the definition of "Affiliate".

I think you may find a judge that will define "affiliate" as one owned by ABX not the other way around.

 

[penguin22]

more from our Scope...

Once again, I'm sure this is going to end up in court and be subject to a judges decision of the definition of "Affiliate".

I think you may find a judge that will define "affiliate" as one owned by ABX not the other way around.

Definitions used in Article 1:

“Affiliate” with respect to a specified Entity means: (a) any person or entity that controls the Company or that the Company controls; or (b) any other corporate subsidiary, parent, holding company or division of the company; or (c) any entity controlling or controlled by an affiliate as defined in (a) and (b).​

(and elsewhere in the Scope language...)
4. Transactions Not Involving Operational Merger
In the event of a Complete Transaction or Partial Transaction with another air carrier that does not contemplate an operational merger, the Company and any Affiliate, or the surviving or acquiring air carrier if different than the Company, shall, unless it has the Union’s consent, keep the operations of the Company or any Affiliate separate from those of the other air carrier; forbear from interchanging crewmembers or aircraft between carriers; and adhere to the crewmember protections set forth in Article 1, Section F.2.d and f. above.​

I'm sure you're right, though. We'll end up in court. Just surveying the future battlefield.​