ABX Air to Acquire CHI

[MrSky]

Doesn't CHI Holdings own ATI which operates an ACMI agreement with BAX/Schenker???? So BAX is not part of CHI's Holdings???

NO BAX is a Customer of ATI

 

[hanginupsidown]

beat me to it Sky!!

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

....For DB's subsidiary, Schenker, the acquisition of BAX Global would strengthen its airfreight activities, giving competitors like Deutsche Post and Kuehne & Nagel a run for their money."

And ABX just bought Bax. So is ABX now in competition with DHL?

BAX/Schenker is a customer of ATI (CHI). All ABXAir bought regarding BAX is ATI which has the ACMI contract with BAX to carry their freight.

So in a sense yes, ABX is now competing indirectly with DHL. A few threads ago I called Hete a corporate prick. But in the same sentence, I added "but he's a smart corporate prick". He is covering all his bases well.

FAJ

 

[SkyMiles]

I guess my point is ABX will be providing services to 2 competitors, no? DHL cant like that too much. I heard Joe say many times "operate separately", what does the ABX teamster contract say about that. I thought it said that any flying done by ABX has to be done by pilots on the abx seniority list? Yes I know the contract is only worth the paper it is printed on but I thought there was much put into this language for just this eventuallity

 

[GoABX]

How many planes by type and pilots does CHI excluding the stuff in conversion?

Anybody know how much scope liability we have on them operating us a 2 separate carriers? Joe will whipsaw the hell out of us if he can.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

Buh-bye DHL. Anyone want to buy a house in Ohio?

Not so fast, although this isn't good news for DHL. These aircraft still need freight to haul and if not DHL's, then whose? Unless of course our Japanese friends want a slice of the US domestic express market in which case where's the new sort operation going to be based?

 

[SkyMiles]

Capital Cargo International Airlines (CCIA):
-100 crewmembers represented by ALPA
-currently operates 14 727-200 aircraft, 1 757-200 aircraft, 5 767-200 in conversion
-operations include flying freight in South America

Air Transport International (ATI):
-150 crewmembers represented by Teamsters
-19 DC-8 73/71/62 combo aircraft

 

[Jafo73]

How many planes by type and pilots does CHI excluding the stuff in conversion?

Anybody know how much scope liability we have on them operating us a 2 separate carriers? Joe will whipsaw the hell out of us if he can.

according to airlinepilot ATI has 150 pilots (teamsters) and 19 70 series DC-8's

 

[hanginupsidown]

How many planes by type and pilots does CHI excluding the stuff in conversion?

Anybody know how much scope liability we have on them operating us a 2 separate carriers? Joe will whipsaw the hell out of us if he can.

FAST FACTS ABOUT CHI HOLDINGS
Capital Cargo International Airlines (CCIA):
-100 crewmembers represented by ALPA
-currently operates 14 727-200 aircraft, 1 757-200 aircraft, 5 767-200 in conversion
-operations include flying freight in South America

Air Transport International (ATI):
-150 crewmembers represented by Teamsters
-19 DC-8 73/71/62 combo aircraft

 

[MrSky]

On the surface I think it is, for everyone concerned. Of course there will be some pain, some gain, but in the end I think this bodes well for all.

Well Booger....Thanks for the "Welcome" !!

Let's hope this works out well for all concerned parties ATI, ABX and CCI (Capitol Cargo).

Just maybe as a side note this may help us all get a Good Contract either individually or separately. I'd like to be the first to ask for ATI to join YOUR local and drop the Limp Dick IBT747, they are useless!

Anyway Howdy to all the ABX'ers I'm sure we will eventually be seeing each other on the respective ramps!

 

[Fly Astar Jets]

Post Self deleted.

 

[shooter]

well, I guess this will kill those "another offer coming" rumors.

 

[GoABX]

Dilemna:

Do the ATI/Cappy guys want to all be merged together? Would you trade your seniority for a pay raise (ATI = 50%, Capital = 100%).

Not trying to be a $hit starter, it is any interesting question. There will only be one list if all 3 unions push for it.

 

[shooter]

Dilemna:

Do the ATI/Cappy guys want to all be merged together? Would you trade your seniority for a pay raise (ATI = 50%, Capital = 100%).

Not trying to be a $hit starter, it is any interesting question. There will only be one list if all 3 unions push for it.

hey Go, do you know how long to get things done if they file for single carrier cert.? Not saying they will, or want to, just how long that takes.

ummmmm, okay...does anyone know how long something like that takes?

 

[GoABX]

My guess the company will fight going to a single carrier. CHI had them separate for a reason. Just look at the pay differences between the 3 airlines. The synergies would have to be pretty great to wrap everything together. Pilots are only part of the equation. (Mechanics, admin, etc.)

Under the holding company umbrella Hete has access to the resources but he can strip them out at his pleasure. So I'm sure future 76s will be offered to both ABX and CCIA, so who wants to operate them cheaper? Merging certificates also wastes the value of the CCIA 76 ticket. Along the same line of thought, ABX now has access to 727 paperwork so how might this be used against Astar? I can think of a few possibilities and none of them are good.

I have no information on the condition of the 8's and 72s, but even if the were in excellent mechanical condition like the ABX birds, they are still fuel hogs. How long do you tolerate that? and who gets the replacements? We are back to the Whipsawville.

The 3 (4 if you count Astar) pilot groups have got to exert their influence to have one airline. We are have the power to do this is the question. Today, this all sounds very logical, but when you are faced with losing seniority and seat position versus "your" airline picking up a dozen new planes....there is a great temptation to be short sighted. Even if it is your own decision to take the bait, bitterness will eventually set in over the fact that a narrow body FO is making more than a wide body Captain.

Everyone will face tough decisions in the future.

 

[ABXbooger]

Come on guys, this thing is only 6 hours old and your stinkin' it up already. There is so much info coming down the road...who knows. I would like to see a combined list, and I would think a combined group would benefit ALL THREE airlines, if that's the way this goes.

 

[b707guy]

Just to throw out some numbers, we (ATI) currently operate 7 -71 and 5 -73 freighters, plus 3 -62 and 1 -72 combi aircraft. One additional -72 is in storage with no apparent future, and another -71 is in storage until a currently-operating -71 times out and goes away (very soon). Either way, we have 16 operational aircraft. They are all owned by another entity that appears(?) to be owned by a CHI subsidiary as we currently are.

Cappy provides most if not all of their service to BAX out of the TOL hub. We tend to spread out all over the place, with about half of the fleet dedicated to BAX, the rest ad hoc and military. Pure conjecture here, but we have generally 3-5 aircraft sitting in TOL with nothing to do, which may play into the opening subject of the "good news for ABX" thread... A bit short on crews, though. No idea where that may lead us.

 

[MrSky]

Come on guys, this thing is only 6 hours old and your stinkin' it up already. There is so much info coming down the road...who knows. I would like to see a combined list, and I would think a combined group would benefit ALL THREE airlines, if that's the way this goes.

Here! Here! Let's see how this pans out, before we start throwing S&#t at the fan.

I can tell you what most guys want at ATI (besides a larger paycheck) is probably what most everyone else wants in the freight industry.... Stability, which is something we did not have with Fox at the helm.

We are not looking for your job or anyone else's, most of us just want a place we can call home until retirement. ATI has never (at least since I've been there) a place to get some hours and a type rating then split. We all bitch about our jobs, just like you guy's do, but overall our QOL is'nt bad.

And no matter what, this deal seems to be a "Done Deal". So instead of fighting right off the bat, we try to make this as best we can for all of us.

 

[flyinboxes]

Not so fast, although this isn't good news for DHL. These aircraft still need freight to haul and if not DHL's, then whose? Unless of course our Japanese friends want a slice of the US domestic express market in which case where's the new sort operation going to be based?

They already have freight to fly.
The new base will be in Xenia.

 

[FreightBumper]

ANA could have a base in ORD without much fanfare. FWA?