ABX Air to Acquire CHI

[SkyMiles]

It appears that sec. A1.F.1 Merger Protections of the contract spells out that ABX Holdings is bound by the contract if they are defined as a successor, assign, assignee, transferee, administrator, executor, and/or trustee. So if that is the case the companies can be operated separately but the flying must be done by those on the abx seniority list. And any future flying must also be done by those on the seniority list. So it looks like separate companies, one contract, one seniority list?

And since the Holding company did not come into effect now, I would say the dhl acmi is with abx air, inc.

And I am not wanting to put anyone out of a job. I just dont want to be cannabilized again and see our ops shrink and others grow at the expense of us.

 

[SkyMiles]

penguin,
that is a possible scenario. In 18 months or whenever the original acmi expires, a new acmi is struck with chi. DHL gets their doors. The 9's will be gone and we get cut in half. However, the chi 727's are already flying with someones freight so you run into a lift problem. I hope this scope is worth something because there is no reason that joe would grow a business with higher operating costs when he has 2 low cost operators at his disposal (no offence meant). It just stresses that chi and ati need to be under our contract and affiliation.

 

[penguin22]

from our Scope...

2) Parallel Operations and Asset Dispositions
a) Except as otherwise provided in this Article 1, the
Company shall not directly or through an Affiliate establish
any new airline and/or air carrier, or acquire a controlling
interest in any air carrier which conducts airline operations,
including international operations, of the type covered by
Article 1, Section E.1., unless such operations are performed
by crewmembers on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember
Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement to the
same extent as if the operations were performed in and for
the service of ABX Air, Inc.
(emphasis added) So on second glance our DHL flying looks pretty secure too.

Again, I'm sure we can protect our scope without any grievance or injunctions that try to steal existing jobs.

 

[Jurassic Jet]

2) Parallel Operations and Asset Dispositions
a) Except as otherwise provided in this Article 1, the
Company shall not directly or through an Affiliate establish
any new airline and/or air carrier, or acquire a controlling
interest in any air carrier which conducts airline operations,
including international operations, of the type covered by
Article 1, Section E.1., unless such operations are performed
by crewmembers on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember
Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement to the
same extent as if the operations were performed in and for
the service of ABX Air, Inc.
(emphasis added) So on second glance our DHL flying looks pretty secure too.

Again, I'm sure we can protect our scope without any grievance or injunctions that try to steal existing jobs.

Once again, I'm sure this is going to end up in court and be subject to a judges decision of the definition of "Affiliate".

I think you may find a judge that will define "affiliate" as one owned by ABX not the other way around.

 

[penguin22]

more from our Scope...

Once again, I'm sure this is going to end up in court and be subject to a judges decision of the definition of "Affiliate".

I think you may find a judge that will define "affiliate" as one owned by ABX not the other way around.

Definitions used in Article 1:

“Affiliate” with respect to a specified Entity means: (a) any person or entity that controls the Company or that the Company controls; or (b) any other corporate subsidiary, parent, holding company or division of the company; or (c) any entity controlling or controlled by an affiliate as defined in (a) and (b).​

(and elsewhere in the Scope language...)
4. Transactions Not Involving Operational Merger
In the event of a Complete Transaction or Partial Transaction with another air carrier that does not contemplate an operational merger, the Company and any Affiliate, or the surviving or acquiring air carrier if different than the Company, shall, unless it has the Union’s consent, keep the operations of the Company or any Affiliate separate from those of the other air carrier; forbear from interchanging crewmembers or aircraft between carriers; and adhere to the crewmember protections set forth in Article 1, Section F.2.d and f. above.​

I'm sure you're right, though. We'll end up in court. Just surveying the future battlefield.​

 

[b707guy]

Hi!

Does CAT fit into this somewhere?

cliff
YIP

No, if you are referring to Custom Air Transport. No relation to us.


Penguin:

btw. ATI, are you guys Cat 2?

Wish we were. The RA on some of our aircraft test differently from the others. I have been told that those were once operated to Cat II mins, and I seem to recall seeing some placards showing that as well, but we don't train for it, nor is it in our ops specs.

 

[Cargoav8or]

2) Parallel Operations and Asset Dispositions
a) Except as otherwise provided in this Article 1, the
Company shall not directly or through an Affiliate establish
any new airline and/or air carrier, or acquire a controlling
interest in any air carrier which conducts airline operations,
including international operations, of the type covered by
Article 1, Section E.1., unless such operations are performed
by crewmembers on the ABX Air, Inc. Crewmember
Seniority List in accordance with this Agreement to the
same extent as if the operations were performed in and for
the service of ABX Air, Inc.
(emphasis added) So on second glance our DHL flying looks pretty secure too.

Again, I'm sure we can protect our scope without any grievance or injunctions that try to steal existing jobs.

Shoes on the other foot now baby, lets see how you walk with it. Hell, your already quoting your scope. :laugh:

The above sure looks like a nice warm welcome to your brohters and sisters at ATI and CHI. As long as they remember it everything should be OK!

 

[SkyMiles]

Hey Cargo,
Why dont you take a poll and see if CHI and ATI would rather be operating under their contract (ie. pay rates) or ABX's. One seniority list, ABX's new contract, and a great business model (all facets of the acmi business covered) could yield great opportunities. When you think about it this company is out front in the acmi business. I cant think of one other acmi that encompases what ABX now has. Once again, in my understanding, by adhering to our scope no one will loose a job and all boats will be lifted by the tide. Unlike astars grievance. And yes it is a warm welcome. Played correctly, by both management and the unions, all 3 airlines could be in great shape in the years to come.

 

[penguin22]

Shoes on the other foot now baby, lets see how you walk with it. Hell, your already quoting your scope. :laugh:

The above sure looks like a nice warm welcome to your brohters and sisters at ATI and CHI. As long as they remember it everything should be OK!

If we were Astar, baby, we'd be making claim on all of ATI's and Capital's freight and file an injunction to effectively shut those airlines down. Do you really think that's what we're gonna do? I suppose in your distorted reality thats the only way to go here. Since that's what you did.

 

[Cargoav8or]

Hey Cargo,
Why dont you take a poll and see if CHI and ATI would rather be operating under their contract (ie. pay rates) or ABX's. One seniority list, ABX's new contract, and a great business model (all facets of the acmi business covered) could yield great opportunities. When you think about it this company is out front in the acmi business. I cant think of one other acmi that encompases what ABX now has. Once again, in my understanding, by adhering to our scope no one will loose a job and all boats will be lifted by the tide. Unlike astars grievance. And yes it is a warm welcome. Played correctly, by both management and the unions, all 3 airlines could be in great shape in the years to come.

Hey SKY,

I wouldn't have joined your little shin dig but P felt he need to take a shot. My response was related directly to that. 1224 has a bunch of good folks and few bad, as does 017.

My point was I haven't seen any CCI or ATI guys talking about defending their jobs, but I do see an ABX scope pasted for all to see. Protect your own. You all need to join the 1224 and have a member on the board. Astar is becoming more irrelevant daily, the combined lift and prospects look great. I wish you all, the 1224 too, well.

Good luck, I will stay out of the middle of your utopia.

 

[Cargoav8or]

If we were Astar, baby, we'd be making claim on all of ATI's and Capital's freight and file an injunction to effectively shut those airlines down. Do you really think that's what we're gonna do? I suppose in your distorted reality thats the only way to go here. Since that's what you did.

Nope, because we would have no claim (not DHL freight) and you don't because you have no claim. But if you did I have no doubt the direction you would travel. And so I don't have to continue this childish convo with you, apparently the courts feel we have a valid claim otherwise it would have been thrown out, yet it wasn't.

Enough said, enjoy your day.

 

[penguin22]

Nope, because we would have no claim (not DHL freight)

And before DHL bought Airborne, our freight was Airborne Express. (not DHL freight)

 

[Cargoav8or]

And before DHL bought Airborne, our freight was Airborne Express. (not DHL freight)

Sending you a PM

 

[LarryinTN]

My point was I haven't seen any CCI or ATI guys talking about defending their jobs, but I do see an ABX scope pasted for all to see.

Nobody's trying to take their jobs. What we'd like to do it get them onto our seniority list. I would think that the CCI and ATI guys would want that as well.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Seems to me that the difference between what has been said so far is that APA1224 would like the CHI pilots to all join in for the better of the group, and to have some leverage againt Hete, if it comes to that.

Funny I do not remember any offers from ALPA of a combined list between Astar and Abx, like was mentioned many times before on this board. Seems it could have alieveiated some problems.....