ABX Air to Acquire CHI

[kaveman9]

"Nobody's trying to take their jobs. What we'd like to do it get them onto our seniority list. I would think that the CCI and ATI guys would want that as well."


Uhmmm,........you might think that. I'm not so sure. Just where on that seniority list do you propose putting us?

We've got a pretty stable crew force over at ATI. I would guess the median would be 10-12yrs service with 18-20 at the upper end. Most of us are perfectly happy with life over here(but of course, like anyone, we have our gripes). For the time being, I'm quite content to stick with the devil I know, flying our freight in our A/C. If I wanted someone else's job, I'd have asked for it years ago.

If I was asked directly, I think I'd prefer not to be merged into a seniority list even if based on doh, let alone tagged onto the bottom of one. Your pay means less to me than my QOL. OTOH, I'm open to suggestions. But then again, I don't think anyone's ever going to ask me anything, so it's a moot point.

We have all sorts of time to work these things out. I think what's important here is that we quickly learn to work together for the common good and resist the temptation to side up against one another. Management is sure to agitate if history is any guide. I'll state this right here, right now. Nobody is going to use me against another crewmember, no matter who he works for or what equipment he flies. No way-no how. If that's what they've got in mind, they had better think again.

There's a constant rumble over at ATI about switching locals. Always has been. I would say a majority over here are hugely disappointed with 747 and the one alternative that is consistently brought up is a switch over to your local. I think that might have some legs.

To be honest, I don't know much more about ABX than what I've picked up here on this forum in the last day and a half, but from what I've been reading I think we have a lot in common. At any rate, it's obvious that someone somewhere is cloning management teams. Peas in a pod, these guys are. While reading about your troubles, I keep getting that 'deja vu all over again' feeling. Looks like we're in it together for now.

 

[Box-Hauler]

kaveman,

Excellent point, most of us like our current stations in life, me included. That said you should take a look at our current contract and pay scales. One unionized voice is a lot better than 3 separate ones.

I will second, third, and fourth your opinion, "Nobody is going to use me against another crew member" I agree and will stand with you 100% on this issue.

Look forward to meeting your pilot group and ensuring a long stable career for all of us.

 

[MrSky]

Nobody's trying to take their jobs. What we'd like to do it get them onto our seniority list. I would think that the CCI and ATI guys would want that as well.

We are not interested in your work. As far as being on a 600+ Seniority list, I'm not so sure I'm interested in that either. I've worked here nearly 10 years, depending on Reduction in Force I'm either a Very High seniority F/O or a Fairly Low seniority CA. I'm sure as Hell not interested in being stapled to the bottom of a seniority list I would never climb anywhere near the middle of for a few extra bucks and loose all the QOL (what there is of it) to some new-hire at ABX.

Believe me there is NO OFFENSE MEANT by my statement. I'm sure you have a great bunch of guy's in your pilot group, in fact at one time I was going to interview there, but you announced hiring a freeze the day before my interview. But to give up the QOL I have now for a few extra shillings, not too sure about that one. I'd much rather have an increase in my pay (something closer to yours) and stay on my own puny list than be put on the bottom of yours, like American did to TWA. And reading some of your guys posts in the past I think you probably have small radical element in your pilot group that would be pushing to do just that! Thanks,,,, but No Thanks!

 

[LarryinTN]

Just where on that seniority list do you propose putting us?

Date of hire with fences on existing equipment so that you won't have pilots from either side bumping guys down on their current equipment.

We will all be a much stronger if we are a single group instead of three separate groups.

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

Tricky business merging seniority lists, lots of pitfalls with the devil being in the details. Uniting under one union though shouldn't be too difficult with the goal of a common CBA to remove the low cost carrier element from the equation.

 

[penguin22]

Date of hire with fences on existing equipment so that you won't have pilots from either side bumping guys down on their current equipment.

We will all be a much stronger if we are a single group instead of three separate groups.

That sounds reasonable.

Nobody should get stapled. That's a recipe for constant infighting and nobody needs that.

 

[erichartmann]

"Nobody's trying to take their jobs. What we'd like to do it get them onto our seniority list. I would think that the CCI and ATI guys would want that as well."


Uhmmm,........you might think that. I'm not so sure. Just where on that seniority list do you propose putting us?

We've got a pretty stable crew force over at ATI. I would guess the median would be 10-12yrs service with 18-20 at the upper end. Most of us are perfectly happy with life over here(but of course, like anyone, we have our gripes). For the time being, I'm quite content to stick with the devil I know, flying our freight in our A/C. If I wanted someone else's job, I'd have asked for it years ago.

If I was asked directly, I think I'd prefer not to be merged into a seniority list even if based on doh, let alone tagged onto the bottom of one. Your pay means less to me than my QOL. OTOH, I'm open to suggestions. But then again, I don't think anyone's ever going to ask me anything, so it's a moot point.

We have all sorts of time to work these things out. I think what's important here is that we quickly learn to work together for the common good and resist the temptation to side up against one another. Management is sure to agitate if history is any guide. I'll state this right here, right now. Nobody is going to use me against another crewmember, no matter who he works for or what equipment he flies. No way-no how. If that's what they've got in mind, they had better think again.

There's a constant rumble over at ATI about switching locals. Always has been. I would say a majority over here are hugely disappointed with 747 and the one alternative that is consistently brought up is a switch over to your local. I think that might have some legs.

To be honest, I don't know much more about ABX than what I've picked up here on this forum in the last day and a half, but from what I've been reading I think we have a lot in common. At any rate, it's obvious that someone somewhere is cloning management teams. Peas in a pod, these guys are. While reading about your troubles, I keep getting that 'deja vu all over again' feeling. Looks like we're in it together for now.

How about DOH, everybody stays in the seat their in? Any future upgrades posted for bid and awarded by seniority. Same with furloughs. Maybe some sort of fence agreement that would prevent cross bidding unless the seat would otherwise go to the street. Then we see about negotiating one master contract with Joe & Co. We are currently in negotiations, as I believe are the folks at ATI. Don't know about CCI. The goal would be to speak with one voice to management, just as they will to us. Keep them from whipsawing us.

 

[erichartmann]

..... And so I don't have to continue this childish convo with you, apparently the courts feel we have a valid claim otherwise it would have been thrown out, yet it wasn't.

Enough said, enjoy your day.

Unless something new has occured I'm unaware of that not how I read what the courts have so far done. To date, in so far as I know, they have ruled against you and you have appealed. That is not quite the same as having a valid claim.

 

[erichartmann]

Shoes on the other foot now baby, lets see how you walk with it. Hell, your already quoting your scope. :laugh:

The above sure looks like a nice warm welcome to your brohters and sisters at ATI and CHI. As long as they remember it everything should be OK!

While the E-board has been diligent in trying to keep our scope language up to date I doubt the average line pilot had recently read it. What's going on here is us trying to figure out how Joe might use this against us. None of us want ATI or CCI jobs. Our approach will more than likely be to try and get them to join with us under one union roof, one master seniority list, and negotiate one master CBA.

 

[Flyer8]

DC8's

I can't speak for all the guys at ATI,but it would seem that most are very pleased to be part of the group. I am sure that many would welcome a change to your Local. Does anyone know what they would like to do with our DC'8's? New markets? contracts,etc...Thanks for the info

 

[shooter]

If you want to get on one seniority list or not is not really the long sight all 3 groups should be thinking about. If ABX holdings decides its easier to run all 3 groups under 1 ops specs, you will be forced to merge lists. You don't want to go through what USA/AmWest are going through, so a friendly sit down by leaders of all 3 groups is in the best interest of all involved to hammer out the right thing now or what some Washington suit picks for you later. It may not be an issue if they decide to run 3 separate airlines, but be prepared.

Just my nickel from the peanut gallery.

 

[shooter]

I can't speak for all the guys at ATI,but it would seem that most are very pleased to be part of the group. I am sure that many would welcome a change to your Local. Does anyone know what they would like to do with our DC'8's? New markets? contracts,etc...Thanks for the info

Not sure Flyer because we have no idea how your company was selling your product. But I can tell you that ABX has had offers for more work than we have aircraft for.

 

[niteflyr1]

Not sure Flyer because we have no idea how your company was selling your product. But I can tell you that ABX has had offers for more work than we have aircraft for.

Not entirely correct. We've had more offers for work than we have pilots for.

 

[LarryinTN]

Does anyone know what they would like to do with our DC'8's?

What kind of shape are the ATI DC8s in? How is their dispatch reliability?

What's a -71 or -73 burn an hour when heavy?

The 767s have just about replaced our DC8 fleet which once numbered 35 (-61, -62, & -63). We only have two (maybe three) -63s remaining in operation. I believe that we'll be down to one by the end of the year and it's due for a major phase check in early Spring so it might not survive past year end, either.

 

[Flyer8]

Our DC8's are in fair shape with a little decline in Mx during the past few months due to a lot of mx. folks leaving.Bax reliability is 97.53%,AMC freighter is 95% and Combi is at 90%..Latest year to date figures..Burn when heavy is 13,500 to 14000 per hour (just a quick guess)...All in all, not a bad fleet with some very good reliability..